Metacrock is still apologizing...

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Yiu can't compare what the Jews did during a revolt to normal practice during an occupation.

[stevencarrwork]

he got the idea from somewhere. Koester indicates empty tomb was part of the Passion narrative, sot hat means pre Mark. Brown proves Gospel of Peter is using an early independent tradition not derived form the canonical gospels. So that means the possibility of two sources on the guards.

And how does Brown prove that a) the Gospel of Peter is using an early independent tradition b) it is actually history.

Who would have thought that all these Christians were independent of each other? They never talk to each other , presumably in the same way that Mormons and Scientologists all operate totally independently today.

[stevencarrwork]

No.

Suppose there is an empty tomb.

According to the Christian story, evidence damaging to Christianity was given unwittingly to a secret sympathiser of Jesus to look after, and 36 hours later it went missing. How is that a miracle?

Oversimplified as usual. You believe just enough of the story to piece together an ad hoc attack on the veracity but doubt the rest of the details. such as the guards. that's how it's a miracle. got the body past the guards. this is apologetic 101, aka "Josh McDowell."

I don't believe any of the story.

I was simply repeating what Christians say happened - that the body was unwittingly given to a secret Christian sympathiser and then it went missing. How is that a miracle?

These guards are a figment of the anonymous author Matthew's lies. Not even the rest of the New Testament authors could bring themselves to try that one on!

[theterminator]

"The guards were placed at the tomb because the Judeans feared the disciples of Jesus would attempt to steal his body and further deceive the people."

once the body goes missing everyone forgets that the deciples stole the christian god,

“They could find nothing as to how to punish them.” (Acts 4:21) .

the judeans saw a crucified and humilated god who said, "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" why would they care about deciples who had forsaken their god and ran away?
how would pilate verify the intentions of deciples who had ran and forsaken jesus?

[stevencarrwork]

"The guards were placed at the tomb because the Judeans feared the disciples of Jesus would attempt to steal his body and further deceive the people."

once the body goes missing everyone forgets that the deciples stole the christian god. the judeans saw a crucified and humilated god who said, "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" why would they care about deciples who had forsaken their god and ran away?
how would pilate verify the intentions of deciples who had ran and forsaken jesus?

The authorities tried to hush up what had happened.

Yes, Christianity is another of those conspiracy theories.....

[Andrew]

"The guards were placed at the tomb because the Judeans feared the disciples of Jesus would attempt to steal his body and further deceive the people."

once the body goes missing everyone forgets that the deciples stole the christian god,

“They could find nothing as to how to punish them.” (Acts 4:21) .

the judeans saw a crucified and humilated god who said, "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" why would they care about deciples who had forsaken their god and ran away?
how would pilate verify the intentions of deciples who had ran and forsaken jesus?

The disciples thought of Jesus as the Messiah. Messianism was linked with the overthrow of non-Jewish rulers and the restoration of Israel. Would this not have been considered a dangerous idea? Especially if these disciples are proclaiming that the Messiah is actually alive.

[theterminator]

i dont understand your response.

when the jews asked pilate for guards, did pilate send out informers to verify how faithful jesus' deciples were to jesus' claims? according to mark , they ran away. according to mark, before pilate destroyed god, he declared him innocent of all charges. then he got his soldiers to smash up god almighty.

Now on the next day, the day after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together with Pilate, 63and said, "Sir, we remember that when He was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I am to rise again.'64"Therefore, give orders for the grave to be made secure until the third day, otherwise His disciples may come and steal Him away and say to the people, 'He has risen from the dead,' and the last deception will be worse than the first."


comment : once the body goes missing no one cares what happen to it.

[Metacrock]

i dont understand your response.

when the jews asked pilate for guards, did pilate send out informers to verify how faithful jesus' deciples were to jesus' claims? according to mark , they ran away. according to mark, before pilate destroyed god, he declared him innocent of all charges. then he got his soldiers to smash up god almighty.

the fact that you don't understand the concept of the incarnation and have to refer to Jesus as "God almighty" as though all of God is wearing a man suit, shows me that you don't understand what your read. that's a poor rendition. nowhere does the text say that Pilate sent out informers. They did not "smash up God."

Now on the next day, the day after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together with Pilate, 63and said, "Sir, we remember that when He was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I am to rise again.'64"Therefore, give orders for the grave to be made secure until the third day, otherwise His disciples may come and steal Him away and say to the people, 'He has risen from the dead,' and the last deception will be worse than the first."


comment : once the body goes missing no one cares what happen to it.

that's their motive for putting guards on the tomb. that doesn't prove they made it up that means they had a reason to put the guards there.

[Metacrock]

"The guards were placed at the tomb because the Judeans feared the disciples of Jesus would attempt to steal his body and further deceive the people."

once the body goes missing everyone forgets that the deciples stole the christian god. the judeans saw a crucified and humilated god who said, "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" why would they care about deciples who had forsaken their god and ran away?
how would pilate verify the intentions of deciples who had ran and forsaken jesus?

The authorities tried to hush up what had happened.

Yes, Christianity is another of those conspiracy theories.....

that's pretty silly. Anything involving any kind of cover up is a conspiracy theory. that means you must think Governments have never done anything underhanded. that's extremely silly. was the attack on Pearl Harbor just a conspiracy theory? It involved a sneak attack.

[Metacrock]

"The guards were placed at the tomb because the Judeans feared the disciples of Jesus would attempt to steal his body and further deceive the people."

once the body goes missing everyone forgets that the deciples stole the christian god,

“They could find nothing as to how to punish them.” (Acts 4:21) .

the judeans saw a crucified and humilated god who said, "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" why would they care about disciples who had forsaken their god and ran away?
how would pilate verify the intentions of disciples who had ran and forsaken Jesus?

the doctrine of deity of Christ had not evolved yet. The Disciplines did not think of Messiah as God. No one did. Christian doctrine has never assert that God was crucifieid or God was beaten up. Trinitarian language does not mean we talk about Jesus as God as though all of God came out of heaven and turned into Jesus.