Does Acts 10:41 deny Acts 10:39 ?

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Giuseppe
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Does Acts 10:41 deny Acts 10:39 ?

Post by Giuseppe »

The only point in Acts where it is claimed that the Apostles knew the “historical” Jesus:
And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree...

(Acts 10:39)


Acts 10:41:

He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.


Why is the author of Acts 10:41 so precise to point out/specify that only after the resurrection they “ate and drank with him” ?

Didn't they eat and drink with him before the crucifixion?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Stuart
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Re: Does Acts 10:41 deny Acts 10:39 ?

Post by Stuart »

I looked at the passage, and I don't see a seam, so same author. Peter is the patron saint in view here, the we refers to those who are descendant --by "school"-- of this patron saint. That is what is meant by "we" in 10:39.

10:41 references John 20:19-23. It is excluding Mary and Paul specifically, but more generally any other patron saints as authorities other than the "11"

Note, John 20:24-29 is definitely not in view, it may not have been written yet.

Despite both Acts and Luke being put together by the same author from his sources, It does not at all look like Luke 24:13-35, the Emmaus story, is in view. There only two unnamed disciples, although one is probably give the name Cleopas (24:18a) in what is likely an editorial addition (ὀνόματι Κλεοπᾶς inserted in the test) to support some tradition (i.e., a patron saint to some church or order). You can see the editorial awkwardness at Luke 24:33-34 of the gather of the eleven, who are different than the two who broke bread with Jesus, and who then proclaim not that they saw Jesus but that "The Lord has risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!". Simon, as in Peter? But he is one of the eleven. It looks like a messy effort to pull things back together. Whatever, this cannot be the source of the tradition referred to by Peter in Acts. The only logical source is John 20:19-23, or rather the tradition behind it.

It's all about credentials. It's about groups claiming patron saints as sources of authority. The breaking of bread after the resurrection by specific patron saints is not so much a reflection of history as it is a reflection of a credential fight and claims for authority. There does seem to be an element of theology associated with this as well, which points to larger battles between those claiming authority of Peter against presumably those claiming John or Paul, his chief rivals.
Last edited by Stuart on Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“’That was excellently observed’, say I, when I read a passage in an author, where his opinion agrees with mine. When we differ, there I pronounce him to be mistaken.” - Jonathan Swift
andrewcriddle
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Re: Does Acts 10:41 deny Acts 10:39 ?

Post by andrewcriddle »

Giuseppe wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:24 am The only point in Acts where it is claimed that the Apostles knew the “historical” Jesus:
And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree...

(Acts 10:39)


Acts 10:41:

He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.


Why is the author of Acts 10:41 so precise to point out/specify that only after the resurrection they “ate and drank with him” ?

Didn't they eat and drink with him before the crucifixion?
Eating and drinkiing with Jesus after his resurrection has special significance as evidence of the resurrection.

Andrew Criddle
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