Thunder, riddled mind

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Geocalyx
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:59 pm

Thunder, riddled mind

Post by Geocalyx » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:03 am

Continuing my gnosis monologues, I've got NHC VI/2 to spam this time around.

So this is Egyptian riddle poetry simply entitled "Thunder" (the English subtitle "perfect Mind" is not in the manuscript, and implies stuff that's not by necessity there, which is why I'm ignoring it). It's looks like the solution to most of the individual verses to be the goddess Isis (maybe Neith instead, or in subtext) - but this wouldn't be gnosis if there wasn't more to it.
NHC VI/2 Thunder wrote:I am the respected and I am the shunned.
I am the whore and the saint.
I am the wife and virgin.
I am [the mother] and daughter.
Ring any bells? Gospel of Philip will remind you that Jesus' mother, his sister and his special friend were "each a Mary," who is equated with Sophia Achamoth.
NHC VI/2 Thunder wrote:I am she whose wedding is great
and has taken no husband.
There is much worldly celebration around Mary's divine wedding, but Sophia had taken no husband, as she did not consort with Mind prior to her rumination.
NHC VI/2 Thunder wrote:I am the bride and groom
and my husband is him who had begotten me.
This is getting interesting though. Mary's husband is the Creator himself in line with Catholic implications. But how is she both bride and groom? I don't recognize this reference... it shouldn't matter though since the narrator, Thunder, is just about anything imaginable, but that has yet to be stated.
NHC VI/2 Thunder wrote:I am the mother of my father
and the sister to my husband
and he is my seed.
Sophia created God who became Mary's husband. She is also an aion paired with Mind, making Jesus both her brother and husband. Her imperfect 'seed' is the virginally conceived biblical Jesus.
Isis was her sister's husband by the way, but not the mother to her father. Neith was the self-generating goddess, but nothing solid is known about her husband. She is sometimes guessed as being the spouse of Sobek, and due to her primordial mother nature she would indeed be the mother to any husbands and brothers she might have had. Yeah I know. Stretching it. But the book itself challenges me to do it.

So TLDR we can expect at least three layers of thought:
- Thunder is Isis / a conflation of goddesses
- Thunder is Mary / a conflation of Marys
- Thunder is Sophia Achamoth

This goes on for the whole body of text; I'm too lazy to list all of it and go through it line-by-line, but the reader gets an opportunity to contort the meanings like this every which way. The point to the text lies elsewhere.
NHC VI/2 Thunder wrote:You, the defeated, judge them,
before they pronounce judgement against you
for judgement and partiality are inside you.
We're about to get to that...
NHC VI/2 Thunder wrote:If you're sentenced (= judged) by this one,
who will pardon you?
Or if you're pardoned by him,
who will be able to detain you?
This sounds important. Does it refer to whoever would judge you according to your personal interpretation of this text and speaks of general prejudice, or does the scribe have a specific person in mind? Beats me, but it could be both. Though "who will be able to hold you if this guy pardons you" would probably mean a very influential person, above whose authority there is no other.
NHC VI/2 Thunder wrote:For what is inside you
is what is outside you;
and the one who fashions you on the outside
is the one who shaped you on the inside.
And what you see outside you
you see inside you;
is visible and is your garment.
This is a hugely important bit for both understanding the point of this text and the point of the whole of gnosis in general.
So each 'riddle' has many solutions, BUT it depends on the reader on what the solution is. They are all correct but not at the same time, since no matter what conspiracy shockumentaries claim, st. Mary is in fact NEITHER Isis nor Sophia Achamoth; if you've been doing Catholic work, you'll see Catholic Mary in here, if you're a Copt, you'll see Isis, if you've been reading too much gnosis you'll see Sophia Achamoth. This stands for the entirety of the gnostic corpus; it's designed in such way that whenever you read it, your own wisdom will attempt to pin it down to something. This can be overcome only by letting mind do its thing - think and study what's been read. Reflection then takes place, and awareness of Other (our "garment" makes us Other for them). Caution and healthy scepse begin to develop.
NHC VI/2 Thunder wrote:Honor then, you hearers
and you too, speakers (aggelos)
and you, the sent ones
and you, spirits arisen from dead -
for I am she who alone exists
and I have no-one to judge me.
Who alone exists? Mind? God? Goddess Neith? No matter what you call the answer to this text, it's always the process of making a judgement (the fall of Sophia to Achamoth) that provides it. In this context she is indeed the one to really, actually exists. Think of Descartes' Meditations, where the proof to existence is provided by evidence of existence itself.
Sent ones may refer to apostles by the way. Spirits arisen from dead might be people who are very dead yet influence the living somehow.
NHC VI/2 Thunder wrote:For many are the pleasant forms
that exist in manifold sins
and incontinencies
and shameful passions
and fleeting pleasures
which they accept until they sober up
and go up to their resting place.
You can't take earthly pleasures with you once you die, yet ...
NHC VI/2 Thunder wrote:And they will find me there
and they will live
and they will not die again.
... in the end, everyone confronts the Wisdom when they do. Death doesn't matter anymore since there's no more earthly pleasures to be had.


BTW calling this "thunder" - were the authors aware of the electrical nature of thought? Hmmm

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