The Jordan turned back.

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Ben C. Smith
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The Jordan turned back.

Post by Ben C. Smith »

There seems to be in the Orthodox tradition a notion that, at Jesus' baptism by John in the Jordan, the Jordan turned back on itself (much as it did at the same river under Joshua):

Kontakion for January 7: The river Jordan trembled and was driven back filled with fear at Your coming in the flesh, / while John drew back in awe as he fulfilled the ministry of a prophet. / The ranks of angels stood amazed, / when they beheld You in the flesh being baptized in the streams. / And we, who were in darkness, are filled with light as we praise You, / who have appeared to enlighten all. [Link: https://oca.org/saints/troparia/2010/01/07.]

This tradition is much older than a modern liturgy, however:

Testimony of Truth: .... But the Son of Man came forth from Imperishability, being alien to defilement. He came to the world by the Jordan river, and immediately the Jordan turned back. And John bore witness to the descent of Jesus. For it is he who saw the power which came down upon the Jordan river; for he knew that the dominion of carnal procreation had come to an end. The Jordan river is the power of the body, that is, the senses of pleasures. The water of the Jordan is the desire for sexual intercourse. John is the archon of the womb. .... [Link: http://gnosis.org/naghamm/testruth.html.]

Chronicon Paschale (PG 92, column 545): Ἐγεννήθη Χοιὰχ κη' ὥρᾳ ζ' τῆς νυκτός. ἐβαπτίσθη Τυβὶ ια' ὥρᾳ ι' τῆς ἡμέρας ὑπὸ Ἰωάννου ἐν τῷ Ἰορδάνῃ ποταμῷ, καὶ ὁ Ἰορδάνης ἀνεπόδισεν εἰς τὰ ὀπίσω. εἴπεν δὲ ὁ κύριος τῷ Ἰωάννῃ· «Εἴπον τῷ Ἰορδάνῃ· ‹Στῆθι· ὁ κύριος ἦλθεν πρὸς ἡμᾶς.›» καὶ εὐθέως ἔστησαν τὰ ὕδατα. / He was born on the twenty-eighth of Choiac at the seventh hour of the night. He was baptized on the eleventh of Tubi at the tenth hour of the day by John in the Jordan river, and the Jordan stepped backward. And the Lord said to John, "Say to the Jordan, 'Stand; the Lord has come toward us.'" And immediately the waters stood.

Itinerary of the Piacenza Pilgrim 11: 11 I observed Epiphany at the Jordan, where so many miracles occur on that night, in that place where the Lord was baptized [ubi baptizatus est dominus]. An obelisk was erected there, hidden by a screen; in that place, where the water turned back in its channel [ubi aqua rediit in alueo suo], a wooden cross is set in the water and steps go down into the water on both sides, made of marble. Great vigils are held on the eve of Epiphany, with a great many people. At the fourth or fifth cock crow morning services are held. When the morning services have been completed, at dawn the ministers come forth; with the deacons standing by, the bishop goes down into the river and at the very moment that he begins to bless the water, right away the Jordan turns back on itself with a roar and the water stands still until the baptisms are accomplished. And all the Alexandrian shipwrights have their staff there on that day, with jars full of spices and balms, and at the very moment when he has blessed the spring, before they have begun to baptize, they pour out all those jars into the river and take from there blessed water and use it to sprinkle water onto their ships before they are put to sea. When the baptisms are completed they all go down into the river for a blessing, dressed in linen and many other types of fabric which they will keep to be buried in. When the baptisms are done, the water returns to its natural place. And the Jordan flows from the Sea of Tiberias to the Dead Sea, where it ends, 130 miles more or less. [Link: http://andrewjacobs.org/translations/pi ... lgrim.html.]

Isho'dad of Merv and Dionysius bar Salibi both apparently reflect this same tradition:

Constantin Oancea, „Der Jordan wandte sich ab,” page 19:

Isho‛dad: „And immediately, as the Diatessaron attests, there shone a mighty light, and over the Jordan hung bright clouds… and the Jordan stopped its course during which time its waters did not move.” (nach Winkler, Appearance [s. Anm. 47], 311).

Dionysius bar Salibi: „And immediately, as the Gospel of Diatessaron testifies, a mighty light flashed upon the Jordan and the river was girdled with white clouds… and the Jordan stood still from its flowing, though its waters were not troubled.” (nach Winkler, Appearance [s. Anm. 47], 312).

[Link: https://www.academia.edu/35530729/_Der_ ... esdienstes.]

Some of the exact imagery seems to derive from one of the psalms:

Psalm 114 (113 OG):

1 When Israel went forth from Egypt,
The house of Jacob from a people of strange language,
2 Judah became His sanctuary,
Israel, His dominion.
3 The sea looked and fled [ἡ θάλασσα εἶδεν καὶ ἔφυγεν];
The Jordan turned backward [ὁ Ιορδάνης ἐστράφη εἰς τὰ ὀπίσω].
4 The mountains skipped like rams,
The hills, like lambs.
5 What ails you, O sea, that you flee?
O Jordan, that you turn back?
6 O mountains, that you skip like rams?
O hills, like lambs?
7 Tremble, O earth, before the Lord,
Before the God of Jacob,
8 Who turned the rock into a pool of water,
The flint into a fountain of water.

Besides just the general interest that this tradition offers (as sort of a sister tradition to the light or fire which supposedly shone at the baptism in some traditions), it also betokens yet another conscious connection between the figures of Jesus and Joshua.

Ben.
Last edited by Ben C. Smith on Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Jordan turned back.

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The tradition is found elsewhere too. I think it has something to do with the Samaritan understanding of Joshua as the Ta'eb/Sha'eb and the Ta'eb/Sha'eb as derived from the verb twb/$wb = to turn back.
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Re: The Jordan turned back.

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Secret Alias wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:39 am The tradition is found elsewhere too. I think it has something to do with the Samaritan understanding of Joshua as the Ta'eb/Sha'eb and the Ta'eb/Sha'eb as derived from the verb twb/$wb = to turn back.
I know I am missing some texts from the Syriac tradition. Do you happen to have links or references?
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Re: The Jordan turned back.

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I know one of the strongest references is/are Hippolytus on the Naasenes. But that's from memory.
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Re: The Jordan turned back.

Post by Ethan »

The rivers that flow from the Lebanese mountains are a fundamental part of the Bible stories, If you do not understand the geography of the Levant, you will not understand the Bible, the stories are region specific. That is why American brains are unable to understand to interpret the Bible, not written for them.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
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Bair Jordan

Post by JoeWallack »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:25 am There seems to be in the Orthodox tradition a notion that, at Jesus' baptism by John in the Jordan, the Jordan turned back on itself (much as it did at the same river under Joshua):
JW:
This is a secondary observation Ben so let me know if you think it's a distraction.

As always, I find it reMarkable that the related story in GMark (which as you know I think is the original) is extreme in its exorcism of anything which would be extreme evidence for Jesus' supposed audience:

1
4 John came, who baptized in the wilderness and preached the baptism of repentance unto remission of sins.
5 And there went out unto him all the country of Judaea, and all they of Jerusalem; And they were baptized of him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.
6 And John was clothed with camel`s hair, and [had] a leathern girdle about his loins, and did eat locusts and wild honey.
7 And he preached, saying, There cometh after me he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
8 I baptized you in water; But he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit.
9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in the Jordan.
10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens rent asunder, and the Spirit as a dove descending upon him:
11 And a voice came out of the heavens, Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I am well pleased.
12 And straightway the Spirit driveth him forth into the wilderness.
Major Markan Markers regarding Jesus:
  • 1) Jesus came to be baptized for the repentance of sins just like everyone else.

    2) Jesus got baptized by John just like everyone else.

    3) God's Spirit possessed Jesus but Jesus' audience did not notice, only the Reader.

    4) The Spirit immediately kuriousnaps Jesus away from the scene of the rhyme so no one, including John who predicted Jesus, notices anything remarkable about Jesus.
"Mark" (author) looks to me to have his Jesus go out of The Way to avoid indicating there was historical witness to anything at the baptism that was a sign. It's all for the Reader. Thematically this follows Paul:
  • 1) Jesus was not seen as reMarkable in his time.

    2) Jesus was revealed as remarkable in Paul's time.

    3) You need faith in Paul's time to see Jesus as remarkable, not historical witness.


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Re: The Jordan turned back.

Post by perseusomega9 »

There's much in the Orthodox tradition/liturgy/hymns that preserves older modes of non-canonical texts or incorporated what were once heretical practices using the principle of economy.

The wine in communion is mized with water, I believe a blending of orthodox and heterodox communion practices.

Baptizees are annointed with oil; heterodox pracice

The recently baptized are given milk and honey afterwords; heterodox practice.

Some hymns refer to Jesus' birth in a cave.

The aerial tollhouses and passwords for the archons are preserved in monastic treatises.

Celibacy and vegetarianism are preserved in monasticism.

etc
The metric to judge if one is a good exegete: the way he/she deals with Barabbas.

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Re: The Jordan turned back.

Post by Ben C. Smith »

JoeWallack wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:51 amMajor Markan Markers regarding Jesus:
  • 1) Jesus came to be baptized for the repentance of sins just like everyone else.

    2) Jesus got baptized by John just like everyone else.

    3) God's Spirit possessed Jesus but Jesus' audience did not notice, only the Reader.

    4) The Spirit immediately kuriousnaps Jesus away from the scene of the rhyme so no one, including John who predicted Jesus, notices anything remarkable about Jesus.
"Mark" (author) looks to me to have his Jesus go out of The Way to avoid indicating there was historical witness to anything at the baptism that was a sign. It's all for the Reader.
I agree that in Mark the whole episode comes off as a personal mystical experience which went unremarked by the crowds at hand: very much unlike the traditions which sooner or later made the signs more evident, even to the point of having the Jordan stopping and a great light or fire illuminating the scene.
perseusomega9 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:14 amCelibacy and vegetarianism are preserved in monasticism.
I think monasticism has always been something of a hotbed of heterodox practices and beliefs, permitted only by virtue of the monks being so isolated and self contained.
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Re: The Jordan turned back.

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Philosophumena 5.2
This, he says, is ocean, "generation of gods and generation of men" ever whirled round by the eddies of water, at one time upwards, at another time downwards. But he says there ensues a generation of men when the ocean flows downwards; but when upwards to the wall and fortress and the cliff of Luecas, a generation of gods takes place. This, he asserts, is that which has been written: "I said, Ye are gods, and all children of the highest;" "If ye hasten to fly out of Egypt, and repair beyond the Red Sea into the wilderness," that is, from earthly intercourse to the Jerusalem above, which is the mother of the living; "If, moreover, again you return into Egypt," that is, into earthly intercourse, "ye shall die as men." For mortal, he says, is every generation below, but immortal that which is begotten above, for it is born of water only, and of spirit, being spiritual, not carnal. But what (is born) below is carnal, that is, he says, what is written. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit." This, according to them, is the spiritual generation. This, he says, is the great Jordan which, flowing on (here) below, and preventing the children of Israel from departing out of Egypt--I mean from terrestrial intercourse, for Egypt is with them the body,--Jesus drove back, and made it flow upwards.

Adopting these and such like (opinions), these most marvellous Gnostics, inventors of a novel grammatical art, magnify Homer as their prophet--as one, (according to them,) who, after the mode adopted in the mysteries, announces these truths; and they mock those who are not indoctrinated into the holy Scriptures, by betraying them into such notions. They make, however, the following assertion: he who says that all things derive consistence from one, is in error; but he who says that they are of three, is in possession of the truth, and will furnish a solution of the (phonomena of the) universe. For there is, says (the Naassene), one blessed nature of the Blessed Man, of him who is above, (namely) Adam; and there is one mortal nature, that which is below; and there is one kingless generation, which is begotten above, where, he says, is Mariam the sought-for one, and Iothor the mighty sage, and Sephors the gazing one, and Moses whose generation is not in Egypt, for children were born unto him in Madian; and not even this, he says, has escaped the notice of the poets.

"Threefold was our partition; each obtained His meed of honour due."

For, says he, it is necessary that the magnitudes be declared, and that they thus be declared by all everywhere, "in order that hearing they may not hear, and seeing they may not see." For if, he says, the magnitudes were not declared, the world could not have obtained consistence. These are the three tumid expressions (of these heretics), CAULACAU, SAULASU, ZEESAR. CAULACAU, i.e., Adam, who is farthest above; SAULASAU, that is, the mortal one below; ZEESAR, that is, Jordan that flows upwards. This, he says, is the hermaphrodite man (present) in all. But those who are ignorant of him, call him Geryon with the threefold body--Geryon, i.e., as if (in the sense of) flowing from earth--but (whom) the Greeks by common consent (style) "celestial horn of the moon," because he mixed and blended all things in all.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Re: The Jordan turned back.

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צַ֤ו = 96 +
106 = קַ֥ו +
זְעֵ֥יר = 287 =
489 = πατήρ
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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