John the Baptist was interpolated in Josephus to distinguish him from the Samaritan Prophet

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Giuseppe
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Re: John the Baptist was interpolated in Josephus to distinguish him from the Samaritan Prophet

Post by Giuseppe » Fri May 15, 2020 3:35 am

Further evidence that John was the Samaritan Messiah:

After the two days he left [the SAMARIA] for Galilee. For Jesus himself had pointed out himself that a prophet has no honor in his own country.When he arrived in Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him.

(John 4:43-45)

Hence, the Galilee can't be the "his own country". The Samaria is. But since Jesus never existed, only "John the Baptist" could be the historical source: he was the Samaritan Prophet killed by Pilate and mentioned both by Josephus and by Tacitus (basing on Josephus himself) who confused him with the Gospel Jesus. Therefore the Baptist Passage in Josephus is entirely interpolated.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: John the Baptist was interpolated in Josephus to distinguish him from the Samaritan Prophet

Post by Giuseppe » Sat May 16, 2020 9:35 pm

Pilate was introduced in the story for two reasons:
  • He killed the Samaritan Prophet, aka "John the Baptist"
  • He was obliged by a Jewish crowd to expel an alien deity from Jerusalem: in the real history, the Pagan effigies, in the story, Jesus the Son of Father (" Jesus Bar-Abbas"), beyond any possible doubt, a parody of the Marcion's alien Christ.


Mark 15:1-16The Narrative Theme Josephus's Ant. 18:3

Very early in the morning, the chief priests, with the elders, the teachers of the law and the whole Sanhedrin, made their plans. So they bound Jesus, led him away and handed him over to Pilate.

an intruder in a place that is not the his own.
But now Pilate, the procurator of Judea, removed the army from Cesarea to Jerusalem, to take their winter quarters there, in order to abolish the Jewish laws. So he introduced Caesar's effigies, which were upon the ensigns, and brought them into the city; whereas our law forbids us the very making of images;


Very early in the morning,

a slight difference in time, between Mark and Josephus, about the introduction of the ALIEN in a foreign place. In both the cases, a secret operation.
which was done without the knowledge of the people, because it was done in the night time;


The chief priests accused him of many things.

First opposition of a group against the intruder.
but as soon as they knew it, they came in multitudes to Cesarea, and interceded with Pilate many days that he would remove the images;


“Do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate, 10 knowing it was out of self-interest that the chief priests had handed Jesus over to him.

first resistance by Pilate in both the cases. First reference to crime of sediction. The crowd don't want an ALIEN (Barabbas, the Pagan effigies) but, respectively:
  • a Jewish Christ as their victim.
  • A Jewish worship

and when he would not grant their requests, because it would tend to the injury of Caesar,


6 Now it was the custom at the festival to release a prisoner whom the people requested. 7 A man called Barabbas was in prison with the insurrectionists who had committed murder in the uprising. 8 The crowd came up and asked Pilate to do for them what he usually did.

In both the cases, the description of an expedient to make it more easy the conclusion of the affair (in a pro-Pilate way). The expedient is a threat of coming release of violence (a free Barabbas is a public danger more than a free Jesus).
while yet they persevered in their request, on the sixth day he ordered his soldiers to have their weapons privately, while he came and sat upon his judgment-seat, which seat was so prepared in the open place of the city, that it concealed the army that lay ready to oppress them; and when the Jews petitioned him again, he gave a signal to the soldiers to encompass them routed, and threatened that their punishment should be no less than immediate death, unless they would leave off disturbing him, and go their ways home.


But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have Pilate release Barabbas instead.
12 “What shall I do, then, with the one you call the king of the Jews?” Pilate asked them.
13 “Crucify him!” they shouted.
14 “Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.
But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”

Strong resistance by the Jews in both the cases against the presence of the ALIEN in Jerusalem. Even to the cost of a possible release of violence (a free Barabbas is a threat as well as the massacre by Pilate)
But they threw themselves upon the ground, and laid their necks bare, and said they would take their death very willingly, rather than the wisdom of their laws should be transgressed;


Wanting to satisfy the crowd, Pilate released Barabbas to them.

Pilate yields.
upon which Pilate was deeply affected with their firm resolution to keep their laws inviolable,


He had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified. The soldiers led Jesus away into the palace (that is, the Praetorium) and called together the whole company of soldiers.

the ALIEN (=the marcionite Christ) has to go to another place, where the pious Jews can't go (respectively out of Jerusalem in Mark and the pagan Caesarea in Josephus). Judea is not for him.
and presently commanded the images to be carried back from Jerusalem to Cesarea.


So, this is further evidence, in addition to this:
  • that Mark is based on Josephus
  • that the Barabbas episode is evidence of early resistance against the increasing judaization of the Jesus cult.
About John in the Earliest Gospel, since "Capernaum" was introduced by Marcion in the incipit only as reaction against Mark's incipit, as I show in figure:

Image

...then Heracleon had to mean a different thing as allegory of Sheol, in the place of Capernaum (not found in the original incipit). This implies out that in the original incipit of the Earliest Gospel the spiritual Christ (the "Light", the Aeon Christ) descended on John in Sheol.

Hence, John (possessed by Christ) rises, finds is previous disciples who believe him the Risen John, and then he ascends the Mount (Gerizim?) again, where he finds Moses and Elijah this time, and not more the Pilate's cavalry to wait him.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: John the Baptist was interpolated in Josephus to distinguish him from the Samaritan Prophet

Post by Giuseppe » Mon May 18, 2020 3:24 am

I have read the Ory's article in the original and I am sorry that Salm has not translated it entirely. I see new arguments about why the Theudas passage was really one and the same with the Samaritan Prophet passage.

The chapter 19 in Josephus ends with a promise:

...and sowed the seeds of that war which began under Florus. Whence it was that when Vespasian had subdued the countrey, he removed them out of his province; as we shall relate hereafter.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/ant-19.html

The problem is that the chapter 20 doesn't realize the promise: no mention of what happened under Fadus. Hence a scribe felt obliged to insert there (= under Fadus) the Theudas passage, copying it from the original episode (the Samaritan Prophet passage) but with the only difference that this time he gives the name of the seditionist: Theudas.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: John the Baptist was interpolated in Josephus to distinguish him from the Samaritan Prophet

Post by Giuseppe » Mon May 18, 2020 3:31 am

In addition, the accusation of being a Samaritan was not denied by Jesus. But that accusation was strictly connected with the accusation of being possessed by Belzebub. Now, Elijah defeated the priests of Baal/Belzebub. Hence, who accused Jesus as possessed by Baal, wanted to deny that Jesus was Elijah redivivus by claiming that he was an anti-Elijah (insofar possessed by the Pagan god enemy of Elijah). But John the Baptist was claimed to be Elijah redivivus, hence the accusation (that was really a negation of the identity with Elijah) was really addressed historically against John/Theudas/Dositheus and not against a historical Jesus who never existed.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: John the Baptist was interpolated in Josephus to distinguish him from the Samaritan Prophet

Post by Giuseppe » Mon May 18, 2020 3:41 am

The error of Gamaliel in Acts was not, as people believe, that he has Theudas preceding Judas. His error was to declare that, while Theudas was "recently" defeated (= a true proposition), Judas was defeated "later" (=a false proposition). Basically, from the POV of Gamaliel's time (in the story and the real past), it is correct to claim that Theudas was defeated "recently": he was the Samaritan Prophet killed by Pilate.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: John the Baptist was interpolated in Josephus to distinguish him from the Samaritan Prophet

Post by Giuseppe » Tue May 19, 2020 9:12 pm

Jesus said that Judas was possessed by devil when he eats with him in the Last Supper: basically, the devil enters in Judas when he eats the bread given by Jesus to him.

But Jesus himself was accused of diabolic possession and of being a Samaritan by pharisees.

Now, Jesus was disciple of John the Baptist, according to the holy fable.

But "John the Baptist" is Theudas, aka the Samaritan Prophet, per above. He was accused of being possessed by devil.

Hence, who eats at the table of John the Baptist, was accused of being possessed by devil, too.


Hence, the original savior was Judas himself: he was a Jesus of his own right, insofar he gains the salvation by sitting at the table of demons.

Hence the original Supper was accused of being a table of demons and impure people.

ADDENDA:

The Eucharist is the judaization of the original Gnostic Eucharist: the Serpent who gives the Gnosis to Adam and Eve.

Hence, Jesus is the Serpent who gives the new apple to Judas, the new Adam.

Jesus calls Judas 'friend' (Matthew 16:23 and 26:34) just when he predicts the denial of Peter.

As effect of the judaization, now Judas is cursed by receiving the bread by Jesus during the Supper. In this way, the accusation of being a diabolic Supper is neutralized, by accusing only Judas as demonic.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: John the Baptist was interpolated in Josephus to distinguish him from the Samaritan Prophet

Post by Giuseppe » Thu May 21, 2020 11:27 am

Barabbas continues to be enigmatic for me. Yes, we have the Couchoud/Stahl's definitive solution of the problem, the only best result in Jesus studies in the last 200 years.

But then see the implication: the Jesus of proto-John - the Jesus who proclaimed "I and the Father are one" - comes before the our Gospels. But the Jesus of proto-John is built partially on the Samaritan Prophet. The Parable of the Samaritan has Jesus the Perfect Stranger. Was he the Samaritan Prophet?

This is the Suggestion, the Perennial Possibility.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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