Jesus Christ: demi-god

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Charles Wilson
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Jesus Christ: demi-god

Post by Charles Wilson » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:00 pm

This is a continuation of a mis-characterization I made about FJVermeiren's learned positions concerning the existence of a "Jesus".
FJV wrote:
Charles Wilson wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:02 am

You, FJV, believe that there was a Jesus-savior-god, seen by the populace as such.
I do not believe there was a Jesus-savior-god.
There was a man called Jesus son of Saphat, quite extensively mentioned by Josephus, who is staged as a godlike figure in the antedated, encoded gospels. With his charisma, social inclination and ethnic profile he gathered a revolutionary army around him and a lot of Jewish refugees expelled from regions with a non-Jewish majority. They saw him as a σωτήρ, a benevolent leader, but not as a God.
When I wrote the above, I had in mind one of the endings of Mark:

Mark 15: 39 (RSV):

[39] And when the centurion, who stood facing him, saw that he thus breathed his last, he said, "Truly this man was the Son of God!"

Now, it appears the I am twice wrong. I mis-characterized FJV's position and I also assumed that the Son of God must also be a god, in the same manner as "...only begotten Son" is the sum-total of possibilities for a God-On-Earth (Adopted sons are also a possibility since Claudius adopted Nero).

If the thesis is the Roman Thesis then the possibilities must accrue to a Roman valuation (or Transvaluation) and we must ask if there are alternative understandings in the Roman Pantheon of god-like understandings.

There is one and it is that the "Jesus" story is the story of a demi-god. "Jesus" was the son-of-god by a Judean woman and the Holy-Spirit (ummm...Domitian, revealing his authorship while in control of the Roman Court). See Also: Testimoneum.

CW

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GakuseiDon
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Re: Jesus Christ: demi-god

Post by GakuseiDon » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:36 pm

I think you need to define what "god" meant in ancient times. A Jesus who was raised by God and ascended to heaven was, in effect, god-like, in the sense that anyone in heaven could be prayed to, as an intermediary to God. Thus the Catholic saints are kind of like gods. But the Jesus of gMark was neither a god nor a demi-god.

Here are various criticisms found in Tertullian's Ad nationes, Aristides' Apology and Minucius Felix's Octavian on the pagans' ludicrous claims about their gods being gods, with the assumption that the Christian claims about Jesus show that Jesus was a true god:

But when you say that they only make men into gods after their death, do you not admit that before death the said gods were merely human?

They, therefore who cannot deny the birth of men, must also admit their death; they who allow their mortality must not suppose them to be gods.

Therefore neither are gods made from dead people, since a god cannot die; nor of people that are born, since everything which is born dies

It is impossible that a god should be bound or mutilated; and if it be otherwise, he is indeed miserable

... you form a virgin from Diana ... What excuse can be found for that insolence which classes the dead of whatever sort as equal with the gods?

Besides, if they were able to make gods of themselves after their death, pray tell me why they chose to be in an inferior condition at first?

It is a settled point that a god is born of a god, and that what lacks divinity is born of what is not divine.

And they say that he [Tammuz] was killed by a wound from a wild boar, without being able to help himself. And if he could not help himself, how can he take thought for the human race? But that a god should be an adulterer or a hunter or should die by violence is impossible

And he [Osiris] was killed by Typhon and was unable to help himself. But it is well known that this cannot be asserted of divinity... And how, pray, is he a god who does not save himself?

It is really important, in life, to concentrate our minds on our enthusiasms, not on our dislikes. -- Roger Pearse

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Jesus Christ: demi-god

Post by Ben C. Smith » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:39 am

The ancients clearly distinguished between eternal immortals, like Zeus, and humans who were elevated to divine status, like Hercules. However, it seems there may be other distinctions apparent, as well.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Jesus Christ: demi-god

Post by Ben C. Smith » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:49 am

Here is one reference to support the above contention:

Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 6.1.2: 2 As regards the gods, then, men of ancient times have handed down to later generations two different conceptions: certain of the gods, they say, are eternal and imperishable, such as the sun and moon and the other stars of the heavens, and the winds as well and whatever else possesses a nature similar to theirs; for of each of these the genesis and duration are from everlasting to everlasting. But the other gods, we are told, were terrestrial beings who attained to immortal honor and fame because of their benefactions to mankind, such as Heracles, Dionysus, Aristaeus, and the others who were like them.

Refer also to Library of Apollodorus 7.7-8; Cicero, On the Laws 2.19.
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Charles Wilson
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Re: Jesus Christ: demi-god

Post by Charles Wilson » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:06 am

Rodney Dangerfield wrote:Tough crowd...Tough crowd.

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