dewitness wrote:You seem not to understand that Doherty presents a mythical Jesus that is completely unheard of in antiquity.
Peter Kirby wrote:
You have a tough problem here, but you're not going about solving it in the right way. Your problem is to show that there was nobody in antiquity who presented a "mythical Jesus" as Doherty alleges. [Note: I'd be impressed if you could show something much less difficult than that, even, e.g., that the author of Hebrews is misunderstood by Doherty.] So how did you attempt to go about doing that? You quoted some writers, from Aristides forward, with some positive mentions of Jesus in a historical context.
I have no problem. My position is rock solid and supported by Multiple writings of antiquity.
Doherty's never on earth Jesus crucified by Archons is extremely easy to debunk because there is no actual evidence for such a teaching in Jesus cult writings.
Doherty's own peers have already claimed that Doherty mis-understood Hebrews.
1500 years ago Chrysostom, a Jesus cult writer, already debunked Doherty's understanding of Hebrews.
See Chrysostom's Homilies on Hebrews.
In fact, Jesus cult writers of antiquity that mention the Pauline Corpus and Jesus completely debunk Doherty's never on earth Archon crucified Jesus.
I have already debunked Doherty.
1. In Acts of the Apostles, Jesus was killed by the Jews--Not Archons.
2. In the Gospels and Acts Jesus was killed on earth--Not in some kind of lunar realm..
See the NT Canon
3. Apologetic writers Aristides, Justin, Hippolytus, Tertullian, Origen, Lactantius claimed the Jews Killed Jesus--Not Archons.
Peter Kirby wrote:]But Doherty also agrees that these writers put Jesus in a historical context. So there's no point of disagreement here between your understanding of Christian origins and Doherty's understanding. Your evidence is compatible with both understandings of Christian origins, without any value for one or the other.
But, the Jesus writers contradict Doherty. They place Paul AFTER the resurrection and ascension. They place Paul AFTER the persecution of the Jesus cult.
You have a major problem. There is no evidence to support the Pauline Corpus BEFORE Acts of the Apostles.
Peter Kirby wrote:So, if I were in your shoes, what would I do different?
I'd start with the theory that Doherty actually presents and attempt to undermine that. I'd go after the documents that Doherty alleges to have a "mythical Jesus" (heavenly Jesus) in them, instead of going after documents that Doherty already agrees with you about.
That's how I would do it if I wanted to make an impression on somebody who might otherwise be impressed with Doherty's work.
If you want to sustain your argument, you have to show how you have evidence that contradicts Doherty's views. That involves both an understanding of his views (which has not really been shown so far) and an understanding of what kind of evidence might show it wrong.
I'm not the only one who would be very glad to hear such evidence! Ecstatic, really. The only reason I am analyzing your presentation and finding it coming up short is simply because it is painfully inadequate.
Please, follow your own advice because I do not take advice from people. I am not impressed at all by your mode of argument.
I deal with writings from antiquity.
Doherty's never on earth Jesus crucified by Archons is just a sosphiscated conspiracy theory without a shred of support in or out the Canon which makes it rather easy to debunk.
Doherty's argument is upside down and back to front.
Bible Jesus was crucified on earth--Not in the sub-lunar.
Bible Jesus was killed by Jews--Not Archons.
Bible Paul was Last--Not first.