Giuseppe wrote: ↑
Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:56 am
Now, I would like to apply the Argument from Silence to GDon's absence of a his answer about the evidence of a crucifixion in outer space of Sophia
just while she is said to go through Horos.
I would be curious to know if GDon will give the same idiotic
answer of Joseph D.L ("the crucifixion in outer space of Sophia is mere symbolism"). Or if he means the crucifixion of Sophia in outer space as a fact
, while the crucifixion of Christ in outer space as symbolism
. In the latter case, GDon will be totally unable to explain why
he is conceding the status of reality only
to the crucifixion of Sophia in outer space and not
to the crucifixion of Christ in outer space.
I think the crucifixion of Sophia is symbolic of her being purified by Horos. Irenaeus also describes Valentinians' beliefs on the same topic:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... book1.html
The Father afterwards produces, in his own image, by means of Monogenes, the above-mentioned Horos, without conjunction, masculo-feminine. For they maintain that sometimes the Father acts in conjunction with Sige, but that at other times he shows himself independent both of male and female. They term this Horos both Stauros and Lytrotes, and Carpistes, and Horothetes, and Metagoges. And by this Horos they declare that Sophia was purified and established, while she was also restored to her proper conjunction. For her enthymesis (or inborn idea) having been taken away from her, along with its supervening passion, she herself certainly remained within the Pleroma; but her enthymesis, with its passion, was separated from her by Horos, fenced off, and expelled from that circle.
So 'crucifixion' is symbolism of her purification, and the separating of her passions. Did it require an actual crucifixion, with a cross? No. Irenaeus goes on to show how 'Horos' and 'Stauros' are used symbolicly:
They show, further, that that Horos of theirs, whom they call by a variety of names, has two faculties,-the one of supporting, and the other of separating; and in so far as he supports and sustains, he is Stauros, while in so far as he divides and separates, he is Horos. They then represent the Saviour as having indicated this twofold faculty: first, the sustaining power, when He said, "Whosoever doth not bear his cross (Stauros), and follow after me, cannot be my disciple; " and again, "Taking up the cross follow me; " but the separating power when He said, "I came not to send peace, but a word." They also maintain that John indicated the same thing when he said, "The fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge the floor, and will gather the wheat into His garner; but the chaff He will burn with fire unquenchable." By this declaration He set forth the faculty of Horos. For that fan they explain to be the cross (Stauros), which consumes, no doubt, all material objects, as fire does chaff, but it purifies all them that are saved, as a fan does wheat. Moreover, they affirm that the Apostle Paul himself made mention of this cross in the following words: "The doctrine of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but to us who are saved it is the power of God." And again: "God forbid that I should glory in anything save in the cross of Christ, by whom the world is crucified to me, and I unto the world."
"Take up the cross and follow me", "The word is crucified to me, and I unto the world". These are symbolic uses of the terms, obviously.
Horos separates out Sophia's passions, and from those -- fear and ignorance -- the substance of the material world was made:
Wherefore also she is called by two names-Sophia after her father (for Sophia is spoken of as being her father), and Holy Spirit from that Spirit who is along with Christ. Having then obtained a form, along with intelligence, and being immediately deserted by that Logos who had been invisibly present with her-that is, by Christ-she strained herself to discover that light which had forsaken her, but could not effect her purpose, inasmuch as she was prevented by Horos. And as Horos thus obstructed her further progress, he exclaimed, Iao, whence, they say, this name Iao derived its origin. And when she could not pass by Horos on account of that passion in which she had been involved, and because she alone had been left without, she then resigned herself to every sort of that manifold and varied state of passion to which she was subject; and thus she suffered grief on the one hand because she had not obtained the object of her desire, and fear on the other hand, lest life itself should fail her, as light had already done, while, in addition, she was in the greatest perplexity. All these feelings were associated with ignorance. And this ignorance of hers was not like that of her mother, the first Sophia, an Aeon, due to degeneracy by means of passion, but to an [innate] opposition [of nature to knowledge]. Moreover, another kind of passion fell upon her her (Achamoth), namely, that of desiring to return to him who gave her life.
2. This collection [of passions] they declare was the substance of the matter from which this world was formed.
No talk of crucifixion there! Of course, it may have actually involved a real crucifixion, but you can see that the symbolism is the important thing. You might also insist "Take up your cross and follow me" as literal, but you can see the symbolism of it anyway even if you do.
In fact, within Valentinian gnosticism there is lots of symbolism. Even the life of Christ on earth provides clues about the cosmos. Consider the following from the same page:
The thirty Aeons are indicated (as we have already remarked) by the thirty years during which they say the Saviour performed no public act...
The production, again, of the Duodecad of the Aeons, is indicated by the fact that the Lord was twelve years of age when He disputed with the teachers of the law, and by the election of the apostles, for of these there were twelve. The other eighteen Aeons are made manifest in this way: that the Lord, [according to them, ] conversed with His disciples for eighteen months after His resurrection from the dead. They also affirm that these eighteen Aeons are strikingly indicated by the first two letters of His name ['Ihsou=j], namely Iota and Eta. And, in like manner, they assert that the ten Aeons are pointed out by the letter Iota, which begins His name; while, for the same reason, they tell us the Saviour said, "One Iota, or one tittle, shall by no means pass away until all be fulfilled."
3. They further maintain that the passion which took place in the case of the twelfth Aeon is pointed at by the apostasy of Judas, who was the twelfth apostle, and also by the fact that Christ suffered in the twelfth month.
As I've already said, even a symbolic celestial crucifixion may be useful for celestial mythicism. But when it comes to Valentinian gnosticism, I think seeing things in symbolic terms is a reasonable starting point.