Sophia is Justified by her children

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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theeternaliam
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:33 am

Sophia is Justified by her children

Post by theeternaliam » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:04 pm

I've never heard a good orthodox explanation of this saying of jesus and to me it sounds like a fairly explicit gnostic message. I would be interested in knowing what the original Greek is and whether the word translated as"justified" could also be translated as "redeemed" and if there are any alternate translations in general.

Any thoughts?

Martin Klatt
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:10 am

Re: Sophia is Justified by her children

Post by Martin Klatt » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:16 am

. . .
Last edited by Martin Klatt on Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
What I have written, I have written........., but it ain't necessarily so.

theeternaliam
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:33 am

Re: Sophia is Justified by her children

Post by theeternaliam » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:23 am

Yes that's one layer of meaning. But is that an actual possible translation? Or does Jesus actually say "her children" in that saying?

andrewcriddle
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Re: Sophia is Justified by her children

Post by andrewcriddle » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:12 am

Luke 7:35 καὶ ἐδικαιώθη ἡ σοφία ἀπὸ πάντων τῶν τέκνων αὐτῆς. but wisdom is vindicated by all her children.
parallel Matthew 11:19 ...καὶ ἐδικαιώθη ἡ σοφία ἀπὸ τῶν ἔργων αὐτῆς. ...but wisdom is vindicated by her actions.

Andrew Criddle

theeternaliam
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Re: Sophia is Justified by her children

Post by theeternaliam » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:20 am

Could Matthews translation perhaps come from an orthodox perspective then? Might Luke's be the original saying of jesus and inn Matthew later scribes changed it to a more orthodox interpretation of Sophia?

andrewcriddle
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Re: Sophia is Justified by her children

Post by andrewcriddle » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:36 am

theeternaliam wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:20 am
Could Matthews translation perhaps come from an orthodox perspective then? Might Luke's be the original saying of jesus and inn Matthew later scribes changed it to a more orthodox interpretation of Sophia?
I tend to agree that Luke has probably the more original saying and that Matthew has modified it.

Andrew Criddle

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