The name change to Jesus/Joshua.

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Giuseppe
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Re: The name change to Jesus/Joshua.

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:23 am

The hymn continues:

he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death
even death on a cross.

The anomaly is that the only mention of a cross already means per se "to the point of Death", so it is as if the Hymn reads really:

he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death
even death to the point of death.

There is clearly insistence on the reality of the death of Jesus.

Against deniers of that reality. Against deniers of the real death of Jesus.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Giuseppe
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Re: The name change to Jesus/Joshua.

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:30 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:08 am
Hence, when the Hymn reads:

who, though he was in the form of an inferior god,
did not regard equality with the supreme God
as something to be pursued,
but emptied himself...

...the idea of the usurpation rejected by Jesus comes from his being before a choice:
  • remain an inferior god, i.e. he, an inferior god, could exalt himself, falsely, as the supreme God
  • to give up to be an inferior god, by humbling himself, so adoring, as a true servant, the true supreme God.
Hence, when Jesus opts for the second option, he becomes a Servant, but not a generic Servant, not even the generic Servant of Isaiah: he was Servant in relation to the supreme god, of which he recognized, by humbling himself, the supremacy.
Hence the my great error. Jesus became a Servant in relation to YHWH considered as the supreme god. Jesus, as Servant, obeyed to YHWH.

This is echoed strictly in Mark 14:36 :

Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

The equation is made for the reader:

Abba == Father

…i.e.: the supreme god (the Father) coincides with "Abba". Jesus obeyed to YHWH as he identifies him as the supreme god.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Giuseppe
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Re: The name change to Jesus/Joshua.

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:45 am

if Jesus is the Servant of YHWH, then Jesus receives as reward the his becoming equal to YHWH (even if still distinct from YHWH).

But there is a problem: the name of YHWH is known.

For the LORD is the one who shaped the mountains, stirs up the winds, and reveals his thoughts to mankind. He turns the light of dawn into darkness and treads on the heights of the earth. The LORD God of Heaven’s Armies is his name!

(Amos 4:13)

But for philosophers and gnostics the supreme god is unnameable.

The final words of the Hymn are derived from Isaiah 45:21-23:

Declare what is to be, present it—
let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago,
who declared it from the distant past?
Was it not I, the Lord?
And there is no God apart from me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none but me.
22
“Turn to me and be saved,
all you ends of the earth;
for I am God, and there is no other.
23
By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear
.

Hence the anomaly: Jesus rejects the idea of usurpation of the title of supreme god, but then he becomes Servant and then equal to the same god (=YHWH) who had applied on himself the idea of usurpation of the title of supreme god.

But there is greater anomaly:

Jesus Christ is YHWH

i.e.

Jesus the Messiah of YHWH is YHWH

Clearly, YHWH can't be in the same time the his Messiah and YHWH.

Hence the interpolation is probably "Christ":

Jesus Christ is YHWH

This is proved by 1 Corinthians 12:3, where "Christ" is missing:

Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Giuseppe
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Re: The name change to Jesus/Joshua.

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:06 am

So Irenaeus shows that all the theophanies of the OT are manifestations of the Son.

Malachi 1:10-11 — indicating in the plainest manner, by these words, that the former people [the Jews] shall indeed cease to make offerings to God, but that in every place sacrifice shall be offered to Him, and that a pure one; and His name is glorified among the Gentiles.
6. But what other name is there which is glorified among the Gentiles than that of our Lord, by whom the Father is glorified, and man also? And because it is [the name] of His own Son, who was made man by Him, He calls it His own. Just as a king, if he himself paints a likeness of his son, is right in calling this likeness his own, for both these reasons, because it is [the likeness] of his son, and because it is his own production; so also does the Father confess the name of Jesus Christ, which is throughout all the world glorified in the Church, to be His own, both because it is that of His Son, and because He who thus describes it gave Him for the salvation of men. Since, therefore, the name of the Son belongs to the Father, and since in the omnipotent God the Church makes offerings through Jesus Christ, He says well on both these grounds, And in every place incense is offered to My name, and a pure sacrifice. Now John, in the Apocalypse, declares that the incense is the prayers of the saints.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103417.htm

The Name is therefore YHWH Sabaoth.


The distinction between the Name and the name of Jesus (therefore the Name is not Jesus) is made implicitly in Ascension of Isaiah 9:5

And he who permitted you to ascend is your Lord, the Lord of the world, the Lord Christ, who will in the world be called Jesus, but his name you cannot heat until you have left your body.

The name Jesus can be heard only in the world (a lot of Jews were named Jesus). The Name of the supreme god has to remain secret, therefore it becomes secret (contra factum that it is not secret). It is: YHWH SABAOTH.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Giuseppe
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Re: The name change to Jesus/Joshua.

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:25 am

It seems evident, from what I have written above, that in the Hymn to Philippians there is an effort of imitation of a general belief that had secret the name of the Supreme God. A way to say that the supreme god was an Unknown God. An Alien God.

It is curious what the Gospel of Truth says about the Name:

And the name of the Father is the Son. It is he who, in the beginning, gave a name to him who came forth from him - he is the same one - and he begat him for a son. He gave him his name which belonged to him - he, the Father, who possesses everything which exists around him. He possess the name; he has the son. It is possible for them to see him. The name, however, is invisible, for it alone is the mystery of the invisible about to come to ears completely filled with it through the Father`s agency. Moreover, as for the Father, his name is not pronounced, but it is revealed through a son. Thus, then, the name is great.
Who, then, has been able to pronounce a name for him, this great name, except him alone to whom the name belongs and the sons of the name in whom the name of the Father is at rest, and who themselves in turn are at rest in his name, since the Father has no beginning? It is he alone who engendered it for himself as a name in the beginning before he had created the Aeons, that the name of the Father should be over their heads as a lord - that is, the real name, which is secure by his authority and by his perfect power. For the name is not drawn from lexicons nor is his name derived from common name-giving, But it is invisible. He gave a name to himself alone, because he alone saw it and because he alone was capable of giving himself a name. For he who does not exist has no name. For what name would one give him who did not exist? Nevertheless, he who exists also with his name and he alone knows it, and to him alone the Father gave a name. The Son is his name. He did not, therefore, keep it secretly hidden, but the son came into existence. He himself gave a name to him. The name, then, is that of the Father, just as the name of the Father is the Son. For otherwise, where would compassion find a name - outside of the Father? But someone will probably say to his companion, "Who would give a name to someone who existed before himself, as if, indeed, children did not receive their name from one of those who gave them birth?"
Above all, then, it is fitting for us to think this point over: What is the name? It is the real name. It is, indeed, the name which came from the Father, for it is he who owns the name. He did not, you see, get the name on loan, as in the case of others because of the form in which each one of them is going to be created. This, then, is the authoritative name. There is no one else to whom he has given it. But it remained unnamed, unuttered, `till the moment when he, who is perfect, pronounced it himself; and it was he alone who was able to pronounce his name and to see it. When it pleased him, then, that his son should be his pronounced name and when he gave this name to him, he who has come from the depth spoke of his secrets, because he knew that the Father was absolute goodness. For this reason, indeed, he sent this particular one in order that he might speak concerning the place and his place of rest from which he had come forth, and that he might glorify the Pleroma, the greatness of his name and the sweetness of his Father.

To my knowledge, I know only a Son of Father of which the name is totally unknown and never revealed:

Βαραββᾶς.

Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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