The Ascension happened after the Last Supper in proto-Mark

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Giuseppe
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The Ascension happened after the Last Supper in proto-Mark

Post by Giuseppe »

I have written:
Giuseppe wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:05 pm

Is it possible that this verse preserves a relic of an earlier story line, one which ended with Jesus actually being taken straight up from the cross? No resurrection, just exaltation (much as we find in Philippians 2.9-11).
this would resemble the view of who thinks that the Transfiguration episode happens in the first gospel just when the Last Supper ends. It was in the same time a Transfiguration, a Crucifixion and an Ascension.
And:
In this view (post above) he original mountain was the Mount of Olives and not the Golghota. The three Pillars were who saw the event and not the pious women. And the killers were the soldiers lead by Judas and not the Romans of Pilate. The original two thieves were Moses and Elijah with Jesus in their middle.
And:
And naturally, the voice from heaven proclaiming the victory of Jesus on Moses and Elijah (and Judah?) was replaced by the Jesus's cry of defeat on the Roman cross.
Now, a strong clue that the original Tranfiguration happens after the Last Supper is found in a verse that is part of the so-called interpolated final of Mark:

Mark 16:14
Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

Why did Jesus appear to the 11 just during a banquet? Was the original banquet just the Last Supper?

Note that it makes a lot of sense the absence of Judas during the end of the Last Supper: it was then that the his betrayal started. Hence the presence of only 11 still "at table".
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Giuseppe
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Re: The Ascension happened after the Last Supper in proto-Mark

Post by Giuseppe »

Not only that. A lot of ridicolous Resurrection stories have Jesus appearing while someone (even the his so-called brother!) is eating at table.

Was that a survived relic of the original Trasnfiguration happening just when the Last Supper ended?

Some have argued that even Paul means that the Eucharist was an episode post-resurrection.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Giuseppe
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Re: The Ascension happened after the Last Supper in proto-Mark

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There is a typical interpolation with restart in Mark 14:17-26:

17 When evening came, Jesus arrived with the Twelve. 18 While they were reclining at the table eating, he said, “Truly I tell you, one of you will betray me—one who is eating with me.”
19 They were saddened, and one by one they said to him, “Surely you don’t mean me?”
20 “It is one of the Twelve,” he replied, “one who dips bread into the bowl with me. 21 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”

22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take it; this is my body.”
23 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, and they all drank from it.
24 “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them. 25 “Truly I tell you, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
26 When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

The interpolator betrayed himself having said a second time the words: "while they were eating". In this way he was interpolating the part in red. Not coincidentially, in that part in red the "Son of man" is mentioned: a typical Judaizing separationist expression designed to replace the identity of Jesus with the "Son of God" or "Son of Father" (parodied by the same Judaizers as "Jesus Bar-Abbas").

Note that also the second part in the middle:


23 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, and they all drank from it.
24 “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them. 25 “Truly I tell you, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

...is a evident judaizing Separationist interpolation: it is the man Jesus (the "Son of man") who preaches the "kingdom of God", not the original hero of the story, i.e. Jesus the "Son of God", who reveals merely the his true Father (not the god of the Jews).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Giuseppe
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Re: The Ascension happened after the Last Supper in proto-Mark

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Hence also Mark 9:1 is a Judaizing interpolation:

And he said to them, "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power."

...designed to show the Transfiguration episode as a predicted apocalyptic event of the earthly "Kingdom of God" for an earthly Jesus distinct (=separationism) from the spiritual Christ, when really the Transfiguration was originally placed at the end of the Last Supper and coincided with the original crucifixion…

..in outer space.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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