Hello PK-Peter Kirby wrote:To put a different spin on all this:
Scenario 3: The church gets big, both in the base of support and with the ears of important people, and begins to explain its beginnings with literature, including a myth baked in of how early that literature is. If there were no very early literature, it's only natural some claiming to be early would be created.
Scenario 4: Conspiracy stuff. Top-down Christianity. Some noble lord somewhere wanted to spread this and hired some writers to make it happen.
The fourth scenario looks good compared to the first or even the second. The third looks good in contrast with all the rest.
This is not knock-down, drag-out stuff but your #3 is deceptive. It may be correct in this case, it's just deceptive. The entire problem here is, "The Church get big". My initial Post was concerning the Time Line for Mark. IF Mark quotes Antiquities..., or, at worst, Proto-Antiquities... (consisting of Nicholas of Damascus, captured Jewish History), Mark is still no earlier than 96 with knowledge of Domitian's Damnatio, and that's pushing it. Many see Mark @ 110 and that's a mere 10 - 15 years after Domitian.
Christianity took over in 15 years? Got B - I - G ? Maybe. I have problems with that but maybe you don't. Our problems may be linked to "What side of the Dividing Line are you on?" When it seems natural that a Platonic Jewish Traveling Preacher could walk into the Temple - after all, he taught there daily - and take over things, maybe all kinds of Time Lines offer themselves. On the other side of that Line is the Disappearing Jewish History part. They HAD their History. They had their Service. To Replay the Human Sacrifice Motif AGAIN leaves one idea. It's POSSIBLE, I suppose that the Parthians crossed the border late at night and replaced the Scrolls with this Jesus guy but it sure seems as if it was imposed on the Jews from somewhere. Josephus tells us that God took away the Promises and gave them to the Romans, specifically Vespasian and his kids. "This Josephus guy...Where did he get his PhD?"
Here is where 3 and 4 get merged around the edges. The Emperor as "god" only works as long as the Emperor is alive. The newly built "Church" lives on after the death of "god" and LO!: We've got Power AND Money!
Assume a Friendly Court that is "god-friendly" to Titus. The fawning Court writes about Titus' Signs Gospel to show that he was a god even while he was alive. Domitian poisons his brother and becomes "Lord God Domitian". He rewrites the "Sign's Gospel" into a text mostly on hand. The Baptism of John is augmented with the Superior Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Mark writes a very Literary Creation shortly after Domitian's death. Within 10 years time, there is a Foundation for a New Religion. As you say, a beginning is written, an end is written and it reads great if it's broken into 4 parts - That Sit-Com ending gets split up into 4 parts and that hides the fact that the sun traces out all 4 Stories without contradiction. It gets written in Greek since that hides a lot of the Aramaic material ("Lamb of God" for instance) and it's off to the races.
Now, this very fanciful couple of paragraphs works on a few levels as 3 and 4 combined. It also leaves a small detail to smooth over: If this is true and Mark was written close to 100 - 105, the Religion has to have its start KNOWING that Domitian, aka Your Holy Spirit, has been damned (He is incorporeal, don't you know) and it has to have been created in the reigns of other, equally screwball Caesars. All we have to do now is look up the Incorporation Papers for "Catholic Church, a Caesar Company". I don't foresee any problems there, do you?
Now the Church can get Big. It's brutalized all the rest of the opposition - It killed the Jews to get started - and #3 takes over. #4 is lurking in the shadows - make that "Roman Catacombs" - but that work can be seen as well. Just as the Mishmarot material can be seen. 'N who wrote that?
CW
