A possible origin for the talmudic Jesus son of Panthera

[Giuseppe]

Aelian’s On the Nature of Animals 6:17 reports that according to a heretical tradition, under king Herod a virgin woman joined a serpent.

This may explain why in the Talmud the Jesus son of Panthera heals against the snakes:

Eleazar b. Damah was
bitten by a snake.
And Jacob of Kefar Sama came to
heal him in the name of Jesus son of Pantera
And R. Ishmael did not allow him [to accept the healing].
He said to him,
“You are not permtted [to accept healing from him], Ben Dama.”
He said to him,
“I shall bring you proof that he may heal me.”
But he did not have time to bring the [promised] proof before he dropped dead.

Someone already says that Panthera was a parody of the virginity of Mary.

[Giuseppe]

It is curious the absence of serpents in the synoptical tradition. In their place, there are the demons threathening/possessing the people, who are exorcized by Jesus the healer.

Did the demons replace the original serpents to eclipse the view of Jesus as the Serpent (raised/impaled/crucified by Moses) healing against the earthly snakes of the demiurge?

[Joseph D. L.]

Yeshu ben Stada/Pantira was marginally historical. That you are attempting to wedge in your nonsensical agenda here is proof that you lost the plot a long time ago.

"Did the demons replace the original serpents to eclipse the view of Jesus as the Serpent (raised/impaled/crucified by Moses) healing against the earthly snakes of the demiurge?"

That makes zero sense.

Your posts boarder on Time Cube lunacy.

[Giuseppe]

Yeshu ben Stada/Pantira was marginally historical. That you are attempting to wedge in your nonsensical agenda here is proof that you lost the plot a long time ago.

"Did the demons replace the original serpents to eclipse the view of Jesus as the Serpent (raised/impaled/crucified by Moses) healing against the earthly snakes of the demiurge?"

That makes zero sense.

Your posts boarder on Time Cube lunacy.

in GJohn Jesus is compared to the Serpent raised by Moses in the wilderness etc. In the synoptics there is no allusion to the serpents, strangely. You should share at least the my wonder, here.

[Joseph D. L.]

I have to ask this, is your inclusion of "the" in grammatically incorrect places just a consequence of the language barrier between English and Italian? Do you write and read in Italian and just run it through a translator?

Anyway, the serpents in Numbers 21 have nothing to do with a demiurge. So to interpret John 3 with such a view is fallacious. John 3 is about signs for the coming of the Paraclete.

One thing that grinds my gears with you is your complete misunderstanding of gnosticism, what it was and how it was applied. Gnosticism was not a set system of absolute terms and symbols, and in most cases, a cigar was just a cigar--no symbolism was intended.

[Giuseppe]

I have to ask this, is your inclusion of "the" in grammatically incorrect places just a consequence of the language barrier between English and Italian? Do you write and read in Italian and just run it through a translator?

sometimes I use the translator. Should I add not "the" after "to" in the my quote above?

Anyway, the serpents in Numbers 21 have nothing to do with a demiurge. So to interpret John 3 with such a view is fallacious. John 3 is about signs for the coming of the Paraclete.

One thing that grinds my gears with you is your complete misunderstanding of gnosticism, what it was and how it was applied. Gnosticism was not a set system of absolute terms and symbols, and in most cases, a cigar was just a cigar--no symbolism was intended.

I agree but you know that in Hyppolitus there is a reference to Serpent:

This Serpent - they say - is Cain of whom the God of this world did not accept the sacrifice, while he accepted the blood of Abel because - according to them - the despot of this world enjoys the blood. Furthermore, this Serpent finally appeared as a man in the time of Herod ...

[Joseph D. L.]

Which has nothing to do with Numbers 21, and doubtful John 3:14. The source for the latter is the Ophiuchus constellation raising the serpent to the constellation Cygnus. Nothing whatsoever to do with a demiurge.

[Ben C. Smith]

I have to ask this, is your inclusion of "the" in grammatically incorrect places just a consequence of the language barrier between English and Italian? Do you write and read in Italian and just run it through a translator?

sometimes I use the translator. Should I add not "the" after "to" in the my quote above?

This is the sort of thing he is doubtless referring to:

You should share at least the my wonder, here.

The article ("the") is superfluous in English if a possessive adjective is being used. "My wonder," not "the my wonder." "Your viewpoint," not "the your viewpoint."

[Giuseppe]

Which has nothing to do with Numbers 21, and doubtful John 3:14. The source for the latter is the Ophiuchus constellation raising the serpent to the constellation Cygnus. Nothing whatsoever to do with a demiurge.

Oh my god!!! Are you an astrotheologian à la Acharya?!! Far from me!

[Joseph D. L.]

Oh, a religion with obvious solar symbolism, and early participants of said religion comparing their central figure to solar philosophies like logos, and texts making veiled analogies to CELESTIAL and HEAVENLY events, has NOTHING TO DO WITH SOLAR WORSHIP AND ASTROTHEOLOGY?!?

You're a fucking moron, Giuseppe. A fucking moron.