Misidentifications of Pauline Gospel Material

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Misidentifications of Pauline Gospel Material

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:14 pm

Origen Commentary on Romans 3.5 - for example to the Galatians he writes "but even if our gospel is veiled."
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Re: Misidentifications of Pauline Gospel Material

Post by Ben C. Smith » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:39 pm

The first one here below you already gave, but after that there are three others (two of them making the same exact mistake):

Origen, Commentary on Romans 1.3.5: 3 .... For example, to the Galatians he writes, “But even if our gospel is veiled” (= 2 Corinthians 4.3). ....

Origen, Commentary on Romans 5.3.8: 8 .... Moreover, concerning “the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness,” it needs to be known that someone does not enter this kingdom, which we said is being prepared by means of war, who has attained [only] a single grace, that is to say, who has pleased God in respect to only one work. On the contrary, an abundance of grace is required according to him who says, “But I labored more abundantly than all of them; but not I but the grace of God with me” (= 1 Corinthians 15.10). He prays similar things as well for those whom he instructed when he says, “Grace to you and peace be multiplied” (= 1 Peter 1.2). ....

Origen, Commentary on Romans 9.2.6: 6 So Paul himself not only says what he says through grace, but he also prays for grace to be given to his hearers; and not only grace but even a multitude of grace. For this is what he writes: “May grace be multiplied to you” (= 1 Peter 1.2). ....

Origen, Commentary on Romans 10.14.5: 5 .... As Paul himself says when writing to the Corinthians, “Brothers, even if anyone is caught in a transgression, you who are spiritual instruct such a one in a spirit of gentleness” (= Galatians 6.1).

Paul is not the only victim:

Origen, Commentary on Romans 9.23.2: 2 For even Jeremiah the prophet says to the sinful daughter of Babylon, “You have burning coals, sit upon them, they will be a help to you” (= Isaiah 47.14-15 OG). ....

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Re: Misidentifications of Pauline Gospel Material

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:52 pm

Curious isn't it. And Clement's citation of Paul is weird in different ways. He often cites Romans in a jumbled order. Who knows. Maybe he was dipping into the Ouzo a little too much.
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Re: Misidentifications of Pauline Gospel Material

Post by Secret Alias » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:10 am

I think I may have figured out why the misidentification crops up. Look at the whole passage:

But in Second Corinthians he writes the following, "Now if the ministry of death, chiseled in letters on stone tablets, came in glory so that the sons of Israel could not gaze at Moses' face because of the glory of his face, which is set aside, how much more will the ministry of the Spirit not be in glory?”367 And a little bit later he says, “For if what is set aside came through glory, the permanent in glory is much more!"8'8 It can be claimed then that, "the glory of Moses' face, which is set aside," and what he says, "for if what is set aside comes through glory," seem to contradict that thought where [Paul] declares, "We do not set aside the law through faith but we establish and confirm it."
But consider whether we can resolve what is intended in the following manner. It is not the same thing to say, "we set aside the law," and, "the law is set aside." Thus in the present passage Paul is declaring that he himself does not set aside the law. For even if the law is set aside through the glory which surpasses it,59 it is not set aside through Paul or through any other saint. This is also why the Lord was saying, “I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it.” No saint then, not even the Lord himself, sets aside the law, but its temporal and transient glory is set aside and surpassed by the eternal and abiding glory. Consider then how carefully and with what sharp-sightedness the apostolic writings need to be read! He has not said, "For what was made glorious has not been glorified," and then reverted to silence — otherwise it would have been deemed a false statement; for how could that which is glorious not be glorified? But he has said additionally, "on account of the glory which surpasses it."371 He wanted to show that the glory of Moses, that is to say, the glory of the law, is not set aside by some individual. But, as we have said, in comparison with the greater glory which is in Christ, the glory which is in the law is covered over and obscured. That which is Christ's is permanent, he says; that which is of Moses is set aside; but set aside not through a human being but in comparison with the surpassing glory, as we have said; since indeed "the law was our pedagogue unto Christ until the fullness of times should come." Just as we say that the task of a pedagogue is necessary only as long as the one who is under the pedagogue is little," and the duty of the pedagogue is set aside and becomes unnecessary when the one who was under the pedagogue reaches maturity; thus in the same way we shall say that the task of the law is set aside now that the fullness of time has arrived.376 And the son, who at one time differed in no respect from a slave,377 has become an heir of the father's property. But learn his custom with this word in other passages as well, that these things which the Apostle designates as things to be set aside should be understood in this way, where he says, “We know in part and we prophesy in part. But when the perfect comes, the things which were in part must be set aside. "378 In that passage it is said that both Paul's knowledge and prophecy are set aside, yet no harm is done to his gift of apostolic grace. We should understand, of course, that in comparison with the perfect, that which is imperfect is superfluous and insignificant.

So then in the expression under discussion, Paul certainly does not set aside the law but confirms it. But when the glory of Christ would be revealed, it silences and exposes and shows that the glory which appeared in Moses and by which he was glorified is not to be reckoned as glorious by the comparison in which [Christ's glory] surpasses it.379 This is precisely [M960] what is said elsewhere, "He must increase but I must decrease";" and as Paul himself says, "But when I became a man I set aside the things of childhood.381 He shows this also by the comparison with the pedagogue, whose task is set aside and comes to an end when the child reaches the age of maturity.
And again:
For example to the Galatians [Corinthians]" he writes, "But even if our gospel is veiled."56 "Our" means everyone who are coheirs of Christ. And indeed, in accordance with the fact that he himself is its proclaimer, Paul rightly calls it his own gospel.57
For it is said in Exodus concerning Moses that when he was descending from the mountain his face was glorified." When the Apostle explicates this passage in the letter to the Corinthians he says, "Now if the ministry of death, chiseled in letters on stone tablets, happened in glory [M881] so that the sons of Israel could not gaze at Moses' face because of his face's glory, which fades, how much more will the ministry of the Spirit be in glory? For if there is glory in the ministry of condemnation, how much more will the ministry of righteousness abound in glory? And after a few words he adds, "And all of us, with unveiled faces, observing the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, as by the Spirit of the Lord."92 According to the Apostle, then, there is a certain glory which is not glorified,93 as for example the glory, which was in Moses' face, which is said to have been destroyed. This can be understood as the letter of the law. Although it possesses a certain glory in its commands, it is nevertheless not capable of being glorified. There exists another glory which remains” and is glorified in Christ. For when he had ascended the mountain with Peter, James, and John, it is written that he was transformed in glory. It says, "And then Moses and Elijah appeared, speaking with him."''1' This shows that when Jesus was transformed into glory, the glory of the law and the prophets then appeared, so that prophecy and law, illuminated by Christ's glory, could be understood in the Spirit, once the veil of the letter had been taken out of the way.

In fact it is even said in Exodus that the glory of God filled the tabernacle of testimony;98 and no less again at the dedication of the temple the glory of God descended and filled the house with a dark smoke and clouds,99 in which, it is scarcely to be doubted, the very presence of God is indicated as having arrived. In these passages, this must be considered to be the glory about which the Apostle is speaking when writing to the Hebrews concerning the Son, "For he is the splendor of his glory and the express image of his substance."" In these things it is made clear that the source of glory is the Father himself, from whom the splendor of that glory, the Son, is generated,"" by participation in whom all creatures are said to have glory, just as it is written about those who are of the resurrection "there is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, another glory of the stars, and star differs from star in glory." Therefore those who seek for the glory of the resurrection and for honor and incorruption, shall assuredly attain what is written, "The body is sown in dishonor, it will rise in glory. It is sown in corruption, it will rise in incorruption."103 And so the one who searches for this glory and honor and incorruption through perseverance in good works will attain to eternal life. (6)

But now that we have discussed glory as well as we could, let us see what honor refers to, since those ...
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Re: Misidentifications of Pauline Gospel Material

Post by Secret Alias » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:58 am

My first question is - what if, just as there was a secret gospel in Alexandria there was also a 'secret' Pauline corpus? Let's start with an observation. Origen's seems to imply that Paul's discussion of two glories - that of Moses and Christ - was Paul commenting on the Transfiguration narrative. So he is saying in effect when Jesus, Moses and Elijah are displayed 'in glory' on the mountain and only Jesus remains that provides the context for Paul's statement about the superiority of Christ's glory to Moses's glory. This would imply Paul had a written gospel.

Next point the segue from 2 Corinthians 3:24 to 1 Corinthians 15's antitheses is also found in Against Marcion:
As to the house of this our earthly dwelling-place, when he says that "we have an eternal home in heaven, not made with hands," he by no means would imply that, because it was built by the Creator's hand, it must perish in a perpetual dissolution after death. He treats of this subject in order to offer consolation against the fear of death and the dread of this very dissolution, as is even more manifest from what follows, when he adds, that "in this tabernacle of our earthly body we do groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with the vesture which is from heaven, if so be, that having been unclothed, we shall not be found naked; "in other words, shall regain that of which we have been divested, even our body. And again he says: "We that are in this tabernacle do groan, not as if we were oppressed with an unwillingness to be unclothed, but (we wish)to be clothed upon." He here says expressly, what he touched but lightly in his first epistle, where he wrote: ) "The dead shall be raised Incorruptible (meaning those who had undergone mortality), "and we shall be changed" (whom God shall find to be yet in the flesh). Both those shall be raised incorruptible, because they shall regain their body----and that a renewed one, from which shall come their incorruptibility; and these also shall, in the crisis of the last moment, and from their instantaneous death, whilst encountering the oppressions of anti-christ, undergo a change, obtaining therein not so much a divestiture of body as "a clothing upon" with the vesture which is from heaven. So that whilst these shall put on over their (changed) body this, heavenly raiment, the dead also shall for their part recover their body, over which they too have a supervesture to put on, even the incorruption of heaven; because of these it was that he said: "This corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." The one put on this (heavenly) apparel, when they recover their bodies; the others put it on as a supervesture, when they indeed hardly lose them (in the suddenness of their change).
What we are suspecting now is that (a) Marcion's antitheses were so called because (b) Galatians was the first epistle immediately following the gospel which (c) contained an antitheses between Judaism and Christianity, Law and Gospel found in Against Marcion 1 and 4 but also (d) the overt antitheses of 1 Corinthians 15.
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Re: Misidentifications of Pauline Gospel Material

Post by Secret Alias » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:23 am

Hegemonius
But only this latest generation of men, which has run its course from Tiberius onward, as you make it out,1691 is to be saved: for it is Christ Himself that “has re-deemed them from the curse of the law;” as Paul, too, has given these further testimonies, that “the letter killeth, and quickeneth no man,” and that “the law is the ministration of death,” and “the strength of sin.”
Thus, too, on the authority of an apostle, he endeavoured to establish the position that the law of Moses is the law of death, and that the law of Jesus, on the contrary, is the law of life. For he based that assertion on the passage which runs thus: “In which also may God make us able ministers of the New Testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, engraven in letters on the stones, was made in glory, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the
face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away; how shall not the ministration of the Spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which shall be done away is glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.” And this passage, as
you are also well aware, occurs in the second Epistle to the Corinthians. Besides, he added to this another passage out of the first epistle, on which he based his affirmation that the disciples of the Old Testament were earthly and natural; and in accordance with this, that flesh and blood could not possess the kingdom of God. He also maintained that Paul himself spoke in his own proper person when he said: “If I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.”


In the last example we see 2 Corinthians to 1 Corinthians 15 back to the end of Galatians 2
I shall speak now with the utmost brevity of the veil of Moses and the ministration of death.
For I do not think that these things at least can introduce very much to the disparagement of the
law. The text in question,1946 then, proceeds thus: “But if the ministration of death, engraven1947 in
letters on the stones, was made in glory, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold
the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away;”1948 and so
on. Well, this passage at any rate acknowledges the existence of a glory on the countenance of
Moses, and that surely is a fact favourable to our position. And even although it is to be done away,
and although there is a veil in the reading of the same, that does not annoy me or disturb me,
provided there be glory in it still. Neither is it the case, that whatever is to be done away is reduced
thereby under all manner of circumstances to a condition of dishonour.1949 For when the Scripture
speaks of glory, it shows us also that it had cognizance1950 of differences in glory. Thus it says:
“There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for
one star differeth from another star in glory.”1951 Although, then, the sun has a greater glory than the moon, it does not follow that the moon is thereby reduced to a condition of dishonour. And
even thus, too, although my Lord Jesus Christ excelleth Moses in glory, as the lord excelleth the
servant, it does not follow from this that the glory of Moses is to be scorned. For in this way, too,
we are able to satisfy our hearers, as the nature of the word itself carries the conviction1952 with it
in that we affirm what we allege on the authority of the Scriptures themselves, or verily make the
proof of our statements all the clearer also by illustrations taken from them. Thus, although a person
kindles a lamp in the night-time, after the sun has once risen he has no further need of the paltry
light of his lamp, on account of that effulgence of the sun which sends forth its rays all the world
over; and yet, for all that, the man does not throw his lamp contemptuously away, as if it were
something absolutely antagonistic to the sun; but rather, when he has once found out its use, he
will keep it with all the greater carefulness. Precisely in this way, then, the law of Moses served as
a sort of guardian to the people, like the lamp, until the true Sun, who is our Saviour, should arise,
even as the apostle also says to us: “And Christ shall give thee light.”1953 We must look, however,
to what is said further on: “Their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil in
219
the reading of the Old Testament; it is untaken away, because it is done away in Christ.1954 For even
unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless, when it shall turn to
the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit.”1955 What, then, is meant by this?
Is Moses present with us even unto this day? Is it the case that he has never slept, that he has never
gone to his rest, that he has never departed this life? How is it that this phrase “unto this day” is
used here? Well, only mark the veil, which is placed, where he says it is placed, on their hearts in
their reading. This, therefore, is the word of censure upon the children of Israel, because they read
Moses and yet do not understand him, and refuse to turn to the Lord; for it is He that was prophesied
of by Moses as about to come. This, then, is the veil which was placed upon the face of Moses,1956
and this also is his testament
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― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: Misidentifications of Pauline Gospel Material

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:03 am

There is a consistent pattern across a number of authors that cite consecutive sections that 2 Corinthians 5 led to 1 Corinthians 15:

Methodius
Whence also we groan, not for that we would be unclothed, as to the body, but clothed upon 2 Corinthians 5:4 by it in the other life. For the house in heaven, with which we desire to be clothed, is immortality; with which, when we are clothed, every weakness and mortality will be entirely swallowed up in it, being consumed by endless life. For we walk by faith, not by sight; 2 Corinthians 5:7 that is, for we still go forward by faith, viewing the things which are beyond with a darkened understanding, and not clearly, so that we may see these things, and enjoy them, and be in them. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Corinthians 15:50 By flesh, he did not mean flesh itself, but the irrational impulse towards the lascivious pleasures of the soul. And therefore when he says, Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, he adds the explanation, Neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Now corruption is not the thing which is corrupted, but the thing which corrupts. For when death prevails the body sinks into corruption; but when life still remains in it, it stands uncorrupted. Therefore, since the flesh is the boundary between corruption and incorruption, not being either corruption or incorruption, it was vanquished by corruption on account of pleasure, although it was the work and the possession of incorruption. Therefore it became subject to corruption. When, then, it had been overcome by corruption, and was given over to death for chastisement, He did not leave it to be vanquished and given over as an inheritance to corruption; but again conquering death by the resurrection, He restored it to incorruption, that corruption might not inherit incorruption, but incorruption that which is corruptible. And therefore the apostle answers, This corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:53 But the corruptible and mortal putting on incorruption and immortality, what else is this, but that which is sown in corruption rising in incorruption?1 Corinthians 15:42 For, as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. For the image of the earthly which we have borne refers to the saying, Dust you are, and unto dust you shall return. And the image of the heavenly is the resurrection from the dead and incorruption.
Tertullian Against Marcion 5:12
As to the house of this our earthly dwelling-place, when he says that "we have an eternal home in heaven, not made with hands," [2 Cor. 5. 1] he by no means would imply that, because it was built by the Creator's hand, it must perish in a perpetual dissolution after death. He treats of this subject in order to offer consolation against the fear of death and the dread of this very dissolution, as is even more manifest from what follows, when he adds, that "in this tabernacle of our earthly body we do groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with the vesture which is from heaven,551 if so be, that having been unclothed, [2 Cor. 5. 2, 3] we shall not be found naked; "in other words, shall regain that of which we have been divested, even our body. And again he says: "We that are in this tabernacle do groan, not as if we were oppressed with an unwillingness to be unclothed, but (we wish)to be clothed upon." [2 Cor. 5. 4] He here says expressly, what he touched but lightly in his first epistle, where he wrote: ) "The dead shall be raised Incorruptible (meaning those who had undergone mortality), "and we shall be changed" (whom God shall find to be yet in the flesh). [1 Cor. 15. 52] Both those shall be raised incorruptible, because they shall regain their body----and that a renewed one, from which shall come their incorruptibility; and these also shall, in the crisis of the last moment, and from their instantaneous death, whilst encountering the oppressions of anti-christ, undergo a change, obtaining therein not so much a divestiture of body as "a clothing upon" with the vesture which is from heaven.557 [3] So that whilst these shall put on over their (changed) body this, heavenly raiment, the dead also shall for their part558 recover their body, over which they too have a supervesture to put on, even the incorruption of heaven;559 because of these it was that he said: "This corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." [1 Cor. 15. 53] The one put on this (heavenly) apparel, when they recover their bodies; the others put it on as a supervesture,562 when they indeed hardly lose them (in the suddenness of their change). [4] It was accordingly not without good reason that he described them as "not wishing indeed to be unclothed," but (rather as wanting) "to be clothed upon; " [2 Cor. 5. 4] in other words, as wishing not to undergo death, but to be surprised into life, "that this moral (body) might be swallowed up of life,"[2 Cor. 5.4] by being rescued from death in the supervesture of its changed state. This is why he shows us how much better it is for us not to be sorry, if we should be surprised by death, and tells us that we even hold of God "the earnest of His Spirit" [2 Cor. 5.5] (pledged as it were thereby to have "the clothing upon," which is the object of our hope), and that "so long as we are in the flesh, we are absent from the Lord; " [2 Cor. 5. 6] moreover, that we ought on this account to prefer568 "rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord,"569 and so to be ready to meet even death with joy. In this view it is that he informs us how "we must all appear before the judgement-seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according as he hath done either good or bad."570 [5] Since, however, there is then to be a retribution according to men's merits, how will any be able to reckon with571 God? But by mentioning both the judgment-seat and the distinction between works good and bad, he sets before us a Judge who is to award both sentences,572 and has thereby affirmed that all will have to be present at the tribunal in their bodies. For it will be impossible to pass sentence except on the body, for what has been done in the body. God would be unjust, if any one were not punished or else rewarded in that very condition,573 wherein the merit was itself achieved. [6] "If therefore any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old; things are passed away; behold, all things are become new; "574 and so is accomplished the prophecy of Isaiah.575 When also he (in a later passage) enjoins us "to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of flesh and blood"576 (since this substance enters not the kingdom of Gods577 ); when, again, he "espouses the church as a chaste virgin to Christ,"578 a spouse to a spouse in very deed,579 an image cannot be combined and compared with what is opposed to the real nature the thing (with which it is compared). when he designates "false apostles, deceitful workers transforming themselves" into likenesses of himself,580 of course by their hypocrisy, he charges them with the guilt of disorderly conversation, rather than of false doctrine.581 [7] The contrariety, therefore, was one of conduct, not of gods.582 If "Satan himself, too, is transformed into an angel of light,"583 such an assertion must not be used to the prejudice of the Creator. The Creator is not an angel, but God. Into a god of light, and not an angel of light, must Satan then have been said to be transformed, if he did not mean to call him "the angel," which both we and Marcion know him to be. [8] On Paradise is the title of a treatise of ours, in which is discussed all that the subject admits of.584 I shall here simply wonder, in connection with this matter, whether a god who has no dispensation of any kind on earth could possibly have a paradise to call his own----without perchance availing himself of the paradise of the Creator, to use it as he does His world----much in the character of a mendicant.585 And yet of the removal of a man from earth to heaven we have an instance afforded us by the Creator in Elijah.586 But what will excite my surprise still more is the case (next supposed by Marcion), that a God so good and gracious, and so averse to blows and cruelty, should have suborned the angel Satan----not his own either, but the Creator's----"to buffet" the apostle,587 and then to have refused his request, when thrice entreated to liberate him! It would seem, therefore, that Marcion's god imitates the Creator's conduct, who is an enemy to the proud, even "putting down the mighty from their seats."588 Is he then the same God as He who gave Satan power over the person of Job that his "strength might be made perfect in weakness? "589 [9] How is it that the censurer of the Galatians590 still retains the very formula of the law: "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established? "591 How again is it that he threatens sinners "that he will not spare" them592 ----he, the preacher of a most gentle god? Yea, he even declares that "the Lord hath given to him the power of using sharpness in their presence!"593 Deny now, O heretic, (at your cost, ) that your god is an object to be feared, when his apostle was for making himself so formidable!
Tertullian Resurrection
Well, then, heresies finding that the apostle had mentioned two "men"-"the inner man," that is, the soul, and "the outward man," that is, the flesh-awarded salvation to the soul or inward man, and destruction to the flesh or outward man, because it is written to the Corinthians: "Though our outward man decayeth, yet the inward man is renewed day by day." [2 Cor. 4. 16] Now, neither the soul by itself alone is "man" (it was subsequently implanted in the clayey mould to which the name man had been already given), nor is the flesh without the soul "man ": for after the exile of the soul from it, it has the title of corpse. Thus the designation man is, in a certain sense, the bond between the two closely united substances, under which designation they cannot but be coherent natures. As for the inward man, indeed, the apostle prefers its being regarded as the mind and heart rather than the soul; in other words, not so much the substance itself as the savour of the substance. Thus when, writing to the Ephesians, he spoke of "Christ dwelling in their inner man," he meant, no doubt, that the Lord ought to be admitted into their senses.264 He then added, "in your hearts by faith, rooted and grounded in love,"-making "faith" and "love" not substantial parts, but only conceptions of the soul. But when he used the phrase "in your hearts," seeing that these are substantial parts of the flesh, he at once assigned to the flesh the actual "inward man," which he placed in the heart. Consider now in what sense he alleged that "the outward man decayeth, while the inward man is renewed day by day." You certainly would not maintain that he could mean that corruption of the flesh which it undergoes from the moment of death, in its appointed state of perpetual decay; but the wear and tear which for the name of Christ it experiences during its course of life before and until death, in harassing cares and tribulations as well as in tortures and persecutions. Now the inward man will have, of course, to be renewed by the suggestion of the Spirit, advancing by faith and holiness day after day, here in this life, not there after the resurrection, were our renewal is not a gradual process from day to day, but a consummation once for all complete. You may learn this, too, from the following passage, where the apostle says: "For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for as a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; while we look not at the things which are seen," that is, our sufferings, "but at the things which are not seen," that is, our rewards: "for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal." [2 Cor. 4. 17, 18] For the afflictions and injuries wherewith the outward man is worn away, he affirms to be only worthy of being despised by us, as being light and temporary; preferring those eternal recompenses which are also invisible, and that "weight of glory" which will be a counterpoise for the labours in the endurance of which the flesh here suffers decay. So that the subject in this passage is not that corruption which they ascribe to the outward man in the utter destruction of the flesh, with the view of nullifying the resurrection. So also he says elsewhere: "If so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together; for I reckon that the sufferings of the present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed in us."266 Here again he shows us that our sufferings are less than their rewards. Now, since it is through the flesh that we suffer with Christ-for it is the property of the flesh to be worn by sufferings-to the same flesh belongs the recompense which is promised for suffering with Christ. Accordingly, when he is going to assign afflictions to the flesh as its especial liability-according to the statement he had already made-he says, "When we were come into Macedonia, our flesh had no rest; "267 then, in order to make the soul a fellow-sufferer with the body, he adds, "We were troubled on every side; without were fightings," which of course warred down the flesh, "within were fears," which afflicted the soul.268 Although, therefore, the outward man decays-not in the sense of missing the resurrection, but of enduring tribulation-it will be understood from this scripture that it is not exposed to its suffering without the inward man. Both therefore, will be glorified together, even as they have suffered together. Parallel with their participation in troubles, must necessarily run their association also in rewards. It is still the same sentiment which he follows up in the passage in which he puts the recompense above the sufferings: "for we know; "he says, "that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens; " [2 Cor 5.1] in other words, owing to the fact that our flesh is undergoing dissolution through its sufferings, we shall be provided with a home in heaven. He remembered the award (which the Lord assigns) in the Gospel: "Blessed are they who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."270 Yet, when he thus contrasted the recompense of the reward, he did not deny the flesh's restoration; since the recompense is due to the same substance to which the dissolution is attributed,-that is, of course, the flesh. Because, however, he had called the flesh a house, he wished elegantly to use the same term in his comparison of the ultimate reward; promising to the very house, which undergoes dissolution through suffering, a better house through the resurrection. Just as the Lord also promises us many mansions as of a house in His Father's home;271 although this may possibly be understood of the domicile of this world, on the dissolution of whose fabric an eternal abode is promised in heaven, inasmuch as the following context, having a manifest reference to the flesh, seems to show that these preceding words have no such reference. For the apostle makes a distinction, when he goes on to say, "For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven, if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked; " [2 Cor 5.2,3] which means, before we put off the garment of the flesh, we wish to be clothed with the celestial glory of immortality. Now the privilege of this favour awaits those who shall at the coming of the Lord be found in the flesh, and who shall, owing to the oppressions of the time of Antichrist, deserve by an instantaneous death, which is accomplished by a sudden change, to become qualified to join the rising saints; as he writes to the Thessalonians: "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we too shall ourselves be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."274 It is the transformation these shall undergo which he explains to the Corinthians, when he writes: "We shall all indeed rise again (though we shall not all undergo the transformation) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump "-for none shall experience this change but those only who shall be found in the flesh. "And the dead," he says, "shall be raised, and we shall be changed." Now, after a careful consideration of this appointed order, you will be able to adjust what follows to the preceding sense. For when he adds, "This corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality," [1 Cor. 15. 51-53] this will assuredly be that house from heaven, with which we so earnestly desire to be clothed upon, whilst groaning in this our present body,-meaning, of course, over this flesh in which we shall be surprised at last; because he says that we are burdened whilst in this tabernacle, which we do not wish indeed to be stripped of, but rather to be in it clothed over, in such a way that mortality may be swallowed up of life, that is, by putting on over us whilst we are transformed that vestiture which is from heaven. For who is there that will not desire, while he is in the flesh, to put on immortality, and to continue his life by a happy escape from death, through the transformation which must be experienced instead of it, without encountering too that Hades which will exact the very last farthing? Notwithstanding, he who has already traversed Hades is destined also to obtain the change after the resurrection. For from this circumstance it is that we definitively declare that the flesh will by all means rise again, and, from the change that is to come over it, will assume the condition of angels. Now, if it were merely in the case of those who shall be found in the flesh that the change must be undergone, in order that mortality may be swallowed up of life-in other words, that the flesh (be covered) with the heavenly and eternal raiment-it would either follow that those who shall be found in death would not obtain life, deprived as they would then be of the material and so to say the aliment of life, that is, the flesh; or else, these also must needs undergo the change, that in them too mortality may be swallowed up of life, since it is appointed that they too should obtain life. But, you say, in the case of the dead, mortality is already swallowed up of life. No, not in all cases, certainly. For how many will most probably be found of men who had just died-so recently put into their graves, that nothing in them would seem to be decayed? For you do not of course deem a thing to be decayed unless it be cut off, abolished, and withdrawn from our perception, as having in every possible way ceased to be apparent. There are the carcases of the giants of old time; it will be obvious enough that they are not absolutely decayed, for their bony frames are still extant. We have already spoken of this elsewhere. For instance, even lately in this very city, when they were sacrilegiously laying the foundations of the Odeum on a good many ancient graves, people were horror-stricken to discover, after some five hundred years, bones, which still retained their moisture, and hair which had not lost its perfume. It is certain not only that bones remain indurated, but also that teeth continue undecayed for ages-both of them the lasting germs of that body which is to sprout into life again in the resurrection. Lastly, even if everything that is mortal in all the dead shall then be found decayed-at any rate consumed by death, by time, and through age,-is there nothing which will be "swallowed up of life," [2 Cor. 5. 4] nor by being covered over and arrayed in the vesture of immortality? Now, he who says that mortality is going to be swallowed up of life has already admitted that what is dead is not destroyed by those other before-mentioned devourers. And verily it will be extremely fit that all shall be consummated and brought about by the operations of God, and not by the laws of nature. Therefore, inasmuch as what is mortal has to be swallowed up of life, it must needs be brought out to view in order to be so swallowed up; (needful) also to be swallowed up, in order to undergo the ultimate transformation. If you were to say that a fire is to be lighted, you could not possibly allege that what is to kindle it is sometimes necessary and sometimes not. In like manner, when he inserts the words "If so be that being unclothed we be not found naked."[2 Cor. 5. 3]-referring, of course, to those who shall not be found in the day of the Lord alive and in the flesh-he did not say that they whom he had just described as unclothed or stripped, were naked in any other sense than meaning that they should be understood to be reinvested with the very same substance they had been divested of. For although they shall be found naked when their flesh has been laid aside, or to some extent sundered or worn away (and this condition may well be called nakedness, ) they shall afterwards recover it again, in order that, being reinvested with the flesh, they may be able also to have put over that the supervestment of immortality; for it will be impossible for the outside garment to fit except over one who is already dressed. In the same way, when he says, "Therefore we are always confident, and fully aware, that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord; for we walk by faith, not be sight," [2 Cor. 5. 6, 7] it is manifest that in this statement there is no design of disparaging the flesh, as if it separated us from the Lord. For there is here pointedly addressed to us an exhortation to disregard this present life, since we are absent from the Lord as long as we are passing through it-walking by faith, not by sight; in other words, in hope, not in reality. Accordingly he adds: "We are indeed confident and deem it good rather to be absent from the body, and present with the Lord;" [2 Cor 8] in order, that is, that we may walk by sight rather than by faith, in realization rather than in hope. Observe how he here also ascribes to the excellence of martyrdom a contempt for the body. For no one, on becoming absent from the body, is at once a dweller in the presence of the Lord, except by the prerogative of martyrdom, he gains a lodging in Paradise, not in the lower regions. Now, had the apostle been at a loss for words to describe the departure from the body? Or does he purposely use a novel phraseology? For, wanting to express our temporary absence from the body, he says that we are strangers, absent from it, because a man who goes abroad returns after a while to his home. Then he says even to all: "We therefore earnestly desire to be acceptable unto God, whether absent or present; for we must all appear before the judgment-seat of Christ Jesus." [2 Cor. v. 9, 10] If all of us, then all of us wholly; if wholly, then our inward man and outward too-that is, our bodies no less than our souls. "That every one," as he goes on to say, "may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."2 Cor 5.10] Now I ask, how do you read this passage? Do you take it to be confusedly constructed, with a transposition288 of ideas? Is the question about what things will have to be received by the body, or the things which have been already done in the body? Well, if the things which are to be borne by the body are meant, then undoubtedly a resurrection of the body is implied; and if the things which have been already done in the body are referred to, (the same conclusion follows): for of course the retribution will have to be paid by the body, since it was by the body that the actions were performed. Thus the apostle's whole argument from the beginning is unravelled in this concluding clause, wherein the resurrection of the flesh is set forth; and it ought to be understood in a sense which is strictly in accordance with this conclusion. Now, if you will examine the words which precede the passage where mention is made of the outward and the inward man, will you not discover the whole truth, both of the dignity and the hope of the flesh? For, when he speaks of the "light which God hath commanded to shine in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of the Lord in the person of Jesus Christ," [2 Cor. 4. 6] and says that "we have this treasure in earthen vessels," [2 Cor. 4.7] meaning of course the flesh, which is meant-that the flesh shall be destroyed, because it is "an earthen vessel," deriving its origin from clay; or that it is to be glorified, as being the receptacle of a divine treasure? Now if that true light, which is in the person of Christ, contains in itself life, and that life with its light is committed to the flesh, is that destined to perish which has life entrusted to it? Then, of course, the treasure will perish also; for perishable things are entrusted to things which are themselves perishable, which is like putting new wine into old bottles. When also he adds, "Always bearing about in our body the dying of the Lord Jesus Christ" [2 Cor. 4. 10] what sort of substance is that which, after (being called) the temple of God, can now be also designated the tomb of Christ? But why do we bear about in the body the dying of the Lord? In order, as he says, "that His life also may be manifested." [2 Cor. 4. 10] Where? "In the body." In what body? "In our mortal body." [2 Cor. 4. 10] Therefore in the flesh, which is mortal indeed through sin, but living through grace-how great a grace you may see when the purpose is, "that the life of Christ may be manifested in it." Is it then in a thing which is a stranger to salvation, in a substance which is perpetually dissolved, that the life of Christ will be manifested, which is eternal, continuous, incorruptible, and already the life of God? Else to what epoch belongs that life of the Lord which is to be manifested in our body? It surely is the life which He lived up to His passion, which was not only openly shown among the Jews, but has now been displayed even to all nations. Therefore that life is meant which" has broken the adamantine gates of death and the brazen bars of the lower world," -a life which thenceforth has been and will be ours. Lastly, it is to be manifested in the body. When? After death. How? By rising in our body, as Christ also rose in His. But lest any one should here object, that the life of Jesus has even now to be manifested in our body by the discipline of holiness, and patience, and righteousness, and wisdom, in which the Lord's life abounded, the most provident wisdom of the apostle inserts this purpose: "For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that His life may be manifested in our mortal body."[2 Cor. 4. 11] In us, therefore, even when dead, does he say that this is to take place in us. And if so, how is this possible except in our body after its resurrection? Therefore he adds in the concluding sentence: "Knowing that He which raised up the Lord Jesus, shall raise up us also with Him,"[2 Cor. 4. 14] risen as He is already from the dead. But perhaps "with Him" means "like Him: "well then, if it be like Him, it is not of course without the flesh.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Secret Alias
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Re: Misidentifications of Pauline Gospel Material

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:47 am

I think that's a pretty solid attempt that the 'antitheses' of 1 Corinthians 15 might have formed the core of Marcion's Antitheses. This is an idea that was first mentioned to me by Daniel Mahar.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

davidmartin
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Re: Misidentifications of Pauline Gospel Material

Post by davidmartin » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:20 pm

what about Ephesians and Collosians, these 2 always struck me as reworked. Anything anti-marcionite in them? There's potential pro-marcionite stuff for sure

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Re: Misidentifications of Pauline Gospel Material

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:47 pm

I can only focus on the gap that must have originally been in Marcionite Galatians.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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