What does the Crown of Thorns as symbol of exaltation imply?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Giuseppe
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What does the Crown of Thorns as symbol of exaltation imply?

Post by Giuseppe »

The Crown of Thorns put on Jesus by Roman soldiers is probably a judaizing symbol of exaltation of the Jewish Messiah ironically just by the his gentile presumed enemies.

Since only Judaizers could exalt Jesus as new Moses (and not as new Joshua):

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But Marcion rejected Moses and all the OT prophets.


Remember that in a more gnostic (but still judaizing) gospel the Crown of Thorns was puth on the Son of God (a divine being) by the "Jews".

In both the cases we would have a judaization in action of the original "Passion" story: the Transfiguration (=crucifixion in outer space).

It is part and parcel of the same process by which the original two thieves crucified with Jesus ceased to be Moses and Elijah and became two anonymous Zealots.

The Transfiguration was the original baptism, resurrection, exaltation and crucifixion.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Ethan
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Re: What does the Crown of Thorns as symbol of exaltation imply?

Post by Ethan »

Cos Christians corrupted culture, so δάφνη/סנה 'the laurel, sacred to Apollo' became a crown of thorns, since Gospel is a satire of the religion of Judea, the crown of thorns probably represents the crown of the circumcised phallus of the Jew.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
Charles Wilson
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Re: What does the Crown of Thorns as symbol of exaltation imply?

Post by Charles Wilson »

Has anyone here read Ralph Ellis, Jesus, King of Edessa?

CW
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: What does the Crown of Thorns as symbol of exaltation imply?

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Charles Wilson wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:02 pm Has anyone here read Ralph Ellis, Jesus, King of Edessa?

CW
His ideas are as ridiculous as yours.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: What does the Crown of Thorns as symbol of exaltation imply?

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Ethan wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:57 pm Cos Christians corrupted culture, so δάφνη/סנה 'the laurel, sacred to Apollo' became a crown of thorns, since Gospel is a satire of the religion of Judea, the crown of thorns probably represents the crown of the circumcised phallus of the Jew.
Dionysus with his crown of ivy:

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Dionysus crucified with his crown of ivy:

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nightshadetwine
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Re: What does the Crown of Thorns as symbol of exaltation imply?

Post by nightshadetwine »

Joseph D. L. wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:11 am Dionysus with his crown of ivy:

As you probably already know, in the mysteries of Dionysus the initiate was given a crown. I wonder if Jesus receiving the crown of thorns is related. I think in the gospels Jesus may represent the initiate who goes through a death and rebirth/resurrection ritual.

The 'Orphic' Gold Tablets and Greek Religion: Further Along the Path(Cambridge University Press, 2011), edited by Radcliffe G. Edmonds III
In the Greek world we find crowns in contexts related to the banquet, the funerary world, the triumph of athletic competition and a number of mystical symbols which serve as tokens for recognition of the inititates.70 All these values find an echo in Orphic testimonies which provide a solid context for the coherent interpretation of the crown of the Thurii leaf.71 But perhaps the most interesting texts in relation to the use of crowns are those about the rites which the Orphics fulfill in the Afterlife. In Plato’s Republic the crown and the wine symbolize the eternal happiness promised to the initiates. The crown would be in relation to the banquet, since it is a perpetual banquet that is promised to a good mystes...

The same panorama is found in two passages of Aristophanes: a fragment73 which refers to some crowned initiates taking part in a banquet in the
Afterlife, and the parody of Clouds74 in which Socrates, after alluding to a ceremony of enthronement of an initiate, offers him a crown because among them such is the usual practice with initiates.75 The crown reappears as a symbol of afterlife blessing in a passage of Plutarch which describes the experiences that the soul suffers after death, taking as references those experienced by the mystes during the τελετή. 76 The funerary and the initiatic appear again united in a poem of unknown authorship from the mid-third century bce77 which echoes the language and the ideology of the leaves. The addressee of this poem is the tragic poet Philicus, whose head, in the moment he left for the Isles of the Blessed, is crowned with ivy, probably as a sign of his initiation in the mysteries. The symbolism of the funerary crown has ritual echoes because the crown is a sign of identity of the initiated deceased, as it had been for the members of the thiasoi described by Demosthenes and Plutarch. To sum up, obtaining a crown after death meant the triumph of the initiated over the cycle of reincarnations, signalling a culminating point. Thus, in the Orphic evidence the rite, the realm of death, and the destiny of the soul are implied in the metaphor of the crown, mystical, triumphal and sympotic at the same time. Orphism offers, then, the most adequate context for the right interpretation of the crown in the leaf of Thurii.
nightshadetwine
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Re: What does the Crown of Thorns as symbol of exaltation imply?

Post by nightshadetwine »

Actually it seems like some of the other crowns mentioned in Christian texts may be related to the crown received in the mysteries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_crowns
The Five Crowns, also known as the Five Heavenly Crowns, is a concept in Christian theology that pertains to various biblical references to the righteous's eventual reception of a crown after the Last Judgment.
Ethan
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Re: What does the Crown of Thorns as symbol of exaltation imply?

Post by Ethan »

An headgear is mentioned in Deuteronomy 33:16, with the same noun as the burning bush, that alludes to the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, according to Myth, made of daphne (סנה), the sacred symbol of Apollo and the seat of the Oracle of Delphi and in Genesis 41:45, he is given the title, δαφνηφόρος 'bay-bearing', the epithet of Apollo at Thebes or δαφνηφάγος.

Deuteronomy 33:16
For the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush (סנה): let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren.

Apollo and Dionysus are rivals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_and_Dionysian
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
nightshadetwine
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Re: What does the Crown of Thorns as symbol of exaltation imply?

Post by nightshadetwine »

Ethan wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:56 pm Apollo and Dionysus are rivals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_and_Dionysian
This seems to be more of a modern thing though made up by philosophers. As the wikipedia article says:
The Ancient Greeks did not consider the two gods to be opposites or rivals, although they were often entwined by nature.
Erika Simon, “Greek myth in Etruscan culture,” in The Etruscan World, ed. J.M. Turfa (Abingdon: Routledge, 2013), 506
There are special Dionysian scenes in the private world of Etruscan mirrors. An inscribed one from the second quarter of the fourth century BCE in Berlin shows Apollo (Apulu) with a laurel staff and Dionysos (Fufluns) who is embraced by his mother Semele (Semla). A satyr boy plays a double pipe at Apollo’s side. This god and Dionysos had near relations in Delphi and Delos, where they owned the same temple.
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