The NT and Presbyter Johns

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
davidmartin
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:51 pm

Re: The NT and Presbyter Johns

Post by davidmartin » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:06 am

How would John the Baptist being the same as John of Zebedee resolve Origen writing as if James is the son, instead of the brother, of John? I may be missing something
Does Origen clearly say which John James is the son of? I may be missing something here!
But if 'of John' originally referred to him being a son of John the baptist, or even just perhaps a disciple.. it would explain why he doesn't say the son of Zebedee as Zebedee and J the B could be the same person

Also, if Zebedee is John the B, then Salome was his wife too!
which could explain the curious note in Celcus of a group of Christians who claimed to follow Salome, if she was effectively John's no. 2 that would figure
And how ironic and strange the tale of another 'Salome' ordering the head of John (if that version is correct regarding the daughter of Herodias)... as if someone wanted to retain John's memory but blot out Salome's.

User avatar
Ben C. Smith
Posts: 7144
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:18 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: The NT and Presbyter Johns

Post by Ben C. Smith » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:56 pm

davidmartin wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:06 am
How would John the Baptist being the same as John of Zebedee resolve Origen writing as if James is the son, instead of the brother, of John? I may be missing something.
Does Origen clearly say which John James is the son of? I may be missing something here!
No. Origen simply uses an expression more fitting for a father-son relationship, and Eisler proposes a textual reason for it. Bear in mind that Origen is paraphrasing Acts 12.2, so the interpretative options are limited. I do not see how John the Baptist would fit in.
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ

Post Reply