Was "Mark", just as Apollos, learned in paulinism?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Giuseppe
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Re: Was "Mark", just as Apollos, learned in paulinism?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:57 am


While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul, having passed through the upper country, came to Ephesus and found certain disciples. 2 He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

They said to him, “No, we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 He said, “Into what then were you baptized?”

They said, “Into John’s baptism.”

4 Paul said, “John indeed baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe in the one who would come after him, that is, in Jesus.”

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

(Acts 19:1-5)

Really, I am beginning to suspect that the great "secular" assumption about John the Baptist being "not christian but christianized" is part and parcel of the diffuse judaization old and new in matter of Christian origins.

It is evident that the author of Acts, a mere propagandist, wants to make us believe that the "Baptism of John" was disconnected from Jesus. The only link conceded by him is that John predicted Jesus. John predicted Jesus, "therefore", as the logic/propaganda goes, John didn't know Jesus.

The hermeneutic of suspicion says me that the contrary was probably true. The "Baptism of John" was connected someway with Jesus.

Only that embarrassing connection can explain Acts 19:1-5.

Only that embarrassing connection can explain Christian interpolations of John the Baptist in Josephus where John is a "Gospel" John without apparently no connection with Jesus at all.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Was "Mark", just as Apollos, learned in paulinism?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:05 pm

Irony of the History:
  • The Catholic propagandist of Acts wanted that the Baptism of John was not a Christian baptism.
  • A lot of modern Mythicists and a lot of historicists want that the Baptism of John was not a Christian baptism.
Do you want to see that, where modern mythicists and historicists have failed to decipher John, the Masons have seen right, by making Saint John the Baptist the Saint Patron of Freemasonry hence christianizing someway him?

Image
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Was "Mark", just as Apollos, learned in paulinism?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:24 pm


Then they sent in many beasts, while she stood and stretched out her hands and prayed. And when she had finished her prayer, she turned and saw a great pit full of water, and said: “Now is the time for me to wash.” And she threw herself in, saying: “In the name of Jesus Christ I baptize myself on the last day!” And when they saw it, the women and all the people wept, saying: “Cast not thyself into the water!”; so that even the governor wept that such beauty should be devoured by seals. So, then, she threw herself into the water in the name of Jesus Christ; but the seals, seeing the light of lightning-flash, floated dead on the surface. And there was about her a cloud of fire, so that neither could the beasts touch her nor could she be seen naked.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/genius.com ... -annotated

This is an example of a baptism potentially embarrassing for a Catholic, insofar:
  • The Baptizer coincides with the Baptized
  • This Baptism is connected with Jesus
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Was "Mark", just as Apollos, learned in paulinism?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:56 pm

Tangential to all this is Acts 14:3:

They decided that Barnabas was the Greek god Zeus and that Paul was Hermes, since he was the chief speaker

Hermes is the harald of Zeus hence Paul is compared to the harald of Barnabas. But "Barnabas" is a deliberate altered form of "Barabbas" ("Son of Father") hence the Catholic propaganda says us that only idiots as Pagans could identify Paul as the harald/apostle of the Son of Father who was not called Christ.

But Hermes is also identified by the Gnostic author of Corpus Hermeticum as a kind of Pagan John the Baptist insofar talks about waters and recipients.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Was "Mark", just as Apollos, learned in paulinism?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:19 pm

The Egyptian god Thoth (identified by Greeks with Hermes and Apollos) was euhemerized in the hermetic writings as an Egyptian sage who worked a baptism, too.

Was he euhemerized also as John the Baptist?

The "Baptism of John" would be then the Baptism of Apollos, the deity Apollos/Hermes/Thoth, euhemerized as a man.

Did Paul himself mean that Apollos is a deity or, which is equivalent, the his euhemerized form?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Was "Mark", just as Apollos, learned in paulinism?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:32 pm


In Islam, Hermes Trismegistos was euhemerized and identified with Idris

https://books.google.it/books?id=wcIPP_ ... ge&f=false
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Was "Mark", just as Apollos, learned in paulinism?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:41 pm

The androgyne nature of Hermes (=Mercury=Thoth=Apollos=Hermes Trismegistus) didn't escape to Leonardo da Vinci:

Image(Saint John the Baptist)
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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arnoldo
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Re: Was "Mark", just as Apollos, learned in paulinism?

Post by arnoldo » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:38 pm

Giuseppe wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:40 am
It is clear here, per above, that the followers of Apollos claimed, as such, to be not of this world, i.e. not of the creator of this world, of the evil demiurge. .
THE DEMIURGE.

Giuseppe
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Re: Was "Mark", just as Apollos, learned in paulinism?

Post by Giuseppe » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:42 pm

It is not only the original "baptism of John" that had to be eclipsed/judaized by the "kindgom of Jesus", but also the "prayer of John" had to be eclipsed/judaized by the "prayer of Jesus" :

Once Jesus was in a certain place praying. As he finished, one of his disciples came to him and said, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples

(Luke 11:1)

A trace of the original "prayer of John" is survived in the following prayer, done just during the scene of a baptism/onction (the original "baptism of John"?):


And he commanded them to bring oil, that they might receive the seal by the oil. They brought the oil therefore, and lighted many lamps; for it was night (Syr. whom I preach: and the king gave orders that the bath should be closed for seven days, and that no man should bathe in it: and when the seven days were done, on the eighth day they three entered into the bath by night that Judas might baptize them. And many lamps were lighted in the bath).


And the apostle took the oil and poured it upon their heads and anointed and chrismed them, and began to say (Syr. And Judas went up and stood upon the edge of the cistern and poured oil upon their heads and said):

Come, thou holy name of the Christ that is above every name.

Come, thou power of the Most High, and the compassion that is perfect.

Come, gift (charism) of the Most High.


Come, compassionate mother.

Come, communion of the male.

Come, she that revealeth the hidden mysteries.

Come, mother of the seven houses, that thy rest may be in the eighth house.

Come, elder of the five members, mind, thought, reflection, consideration, reason; communicate with these young men.

Come, holy spirit, and cleanse their reins and their heart, and give them the added seal, in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Ghost.

http://gnosis.org/library/actthom.htm

Curiously, in Mark, the spirit and the titular name of Christ descend on Jesus during the baptism/onction before John.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Was "Mark", just as Apollos, learned in paulinism?

Post by Giuseppe » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:19 pm


Moses gave Hoshea son of Nun the name Joshua.

(Numbers 13:26)

There is a particular judaizing emphasis in this subtle insistence that "Salvation" (=Hoshea) has to be named "Salvation from YHWH" (=Joshua).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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