Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

I resume here in short the argument:

Justin was the first to discover Zechariah 12:10 but he used it only to prove that the Jews pierced only hands and foot of Jesus (being condamned to see the traces of the crime in the day of Parusia). He didn't use it to prove that the Jews pierced the side of Jesus.

Therefore only after Justin, the story of the piercing of the side of Jesus was interpolated in the fourth gospel.

This hypothesis finds a remarkable evidence in the fact that both John and the Apology 52:12 have the same words in Greek:


A text that differs very a lot from the Greek of the septuaginta.

The piercing of the side of Jesus serves to prove, against Marcion, that the body of Jesus was not ethereal, since from it water and blood go out. The blood is true human blood, since the presence of water mixed with it proves that that blood was able to be dried, like any human blood.

When I see someone who doesn't believe that proto-John is a marcionite gospel, I am 100% persuaded that I have before me a Christian apologist.

Look at Against Marcion Book 4.

Irenaeus specifically points to John 19:34–5 when dealing with the docetic heresy of Marcion in AH4. 33. 2, 'And how, again, supposing that He was not flesh, but was a man merely in appearance, could He have been crucified, and could blood and water have issued from His pierced side?

Hill argues the argument goes back to Polycarp's epistle - https://books.google.com/books?id=iCaQD ... on&f=false

That Tatian was accused of inserting this reference - https://books.google.com/books?id=XKOfD ... on&f=false

Secret Alias wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:52 am Look at Against Marcion Book 4.
'And how, again, supposing that He was not flesh, but was a man merely in appearance, could He have been crucified, and could blood and water have issued from His pierced side?

'Cos the Real Story here is a Stylized Symbolic Story telling of the Suicide of Otho after losing the Battle of Bedriacum with Vitellius at the Po River when Otho fell on his dagger at daybreak.

BTW, this is also chronicled with the "Empty Tomb". Otho has a bare Mausoleum built. When soldiers attempt to proclaim Verginius Rufus as Emperor, he sneaks out the back door. The "Tomb" is doubly empty. There is no succession to be found in this Line! Vitellius will be murdered soon and the Future Savior(s) will be found with the Flavians.

CW