Why the Gnostics wanted that the Jews abandoned YHWH

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Giuseppe
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Why the Gnostics wanted that the Jews abandoned YHWH

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:32 am


29. And some of them with jests upon their lips departed [from me], abandoning themselves unto the Way of Death; others entreated to be taught, casting themselves before my feet.

But I made them arise, and I became a leader of the Race towards home, teaching the words (logoi), how and in what way they shall be saved. I sowed in them the words (logoi) of wisdom; of Deathless Water were they given to drink.

And when even was come and all sun's beams began to set, I bade them all give thanks to God. And when they had brought to an end the giving of their thanks, each man returned to his own resting place.

http://gnosis.org/library/hermes1.html

The last word will be not, for all the Gnostics, the total condemnation of the Judaism and his god. The apostolic spirit of the disciples of Hermes, always eager to "sow the words of wisdom" (C.H. 1:29), will have as goal to draw the Jews from the hold of the evil creator and his Law...

(J. Magne, L'Exaltation de Sabaôth dans Hypostase des archontes, NH, II, 4, 95, 1-31 et l'exaltation de Jésus dans Philippiens 2, 6-II : ou la Naissance de Jésus-Christ, p. 20)
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why the Gnostics wanted that the Jews abandoned YHWH

Post by Joseph D. L. » Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:41 am

I wonder what Gnostic Jews like Philo, Artipanus, and r. Akiva would have to say about this?
Niente è ingannevole o depravato come Guiseppe.

Giuseppe
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Re: Why the Gnostics wanted that the Jews abandoned YHWH

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:46 pm

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:41 am
I wonder what Gnostic Jews like Philo, Artipanus, and r. Akiva would have to say about this?
I mean "Gnostic" as hater of YHWH.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why the Gnostics wanted that the Jews abandoned YHWH

Post by Joseph D. L. » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:24 pm

Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:46 pm
Joseph D. L. wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:41 am
I wonder what Gnostic Jews like Philo, Artipanus, and r. Akiva would have to say about this?
I mean "Gnostic" as hater of YHWH.
So your own made up definition.
Niente è ingannevole o depravato come Guiseppe.

klewis
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Re: Why the Gnostics wanted that the Jews abandoned YHWH

Post by klewis » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:29 pm

Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:46 pm
Joseph D. L. wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:41 am
I wonder what Gnostic Jews like Philo, Artipanus, and r. Akiva would have to say about this?
I mean "Gnostic" as hater of YHWH.
This is so Gnostic of you, creating your own hidden definitions so we may seek enlightenment.

klewis
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Re: Why the Gnostics wanted that the Jews abandoned YHWH

Post by klewis » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:04 pm

Okay, after a long discussion with my wife on Gnosticism, she loves this stuff, YHWH was the evil god that was tricked into giving humans his divine essence. So I can understand what you are getting at Giuseppe. Apologies for the comment earlier.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why the Gnostics wanted that the Jews abandoned YHWH

Post by Joseph D. L. » Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:59 am

klewis wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:04 pm
Okay, after a long discussion with my wife on Gnosticism, she loves this stuff, YHWH was the evil god that was tricked into giving humans his divine essence. So I can understand what you are getting at Giuseppe. Apologies for the comment earlier.
This is modern day projection. Gnosticism was never a monolithic, universal philosophy, and this ignores, not only Jews who were gnostic, but gnostics who viewed YHWH as being benevolent. (Valentinians.) Not to mention gnostic schools like Orphism, Platonism, and Mithraism, who didn't even know YHWH. And even something like Catholicism could be said to be gnostic, and they view him as being benevolent as well.

Gnosticism only means heavenly knowledge. That's all. All these theological systems that Giuseppe, and other amateurs like Blavatsky, write about were never a singular, homogenize school. The only sect that could be said view the demiurge as being malevolent were Cainites. Not even the Marcionites thought he was evil, only just.
Niente è ingannevole o depravato come Guiseppe.

klewis
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Re: Why the Gnostics wanted that the Jews abandoned YHWH

Post by klewis » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:49 am

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:59 am
klewis wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:04 pm
Okay, after a long discussion with my wife on Gnosticism, she loves this stuff, YHWH was the evil god that was tricked into giving humans his divine essence. So I can understand what you are getting at Giuseppe. Apologies for the comment earlier.
This is modern day projection. Gnosticism was never a monolithic, universal philosophy, and this ignores, not only Jews who were gnostic, but gnostics who viewed YHWH as being benevolent. (Valentinians.) Not to mention gnostic schools like Orphism, Platonism, and Mithraism, who didn't even know YHWH. And even something like Catholicism could be said to be gnostic, and they view him as being benevolent as well.

Gnosticism only means heavenly knowledge. That's all. All these theological systems that Giuseppe, and other amateurs like Blavatsky, write about were never a singular, homogenize school. The only sect that could be said view the demiurge as being malevolent were Cainites. Not even the Marcionites thought he was evil, only just.
This is good to know, spent most of my life avoiding this subject.I hope this does not sound childish, but I will be taking the Teaching Company course on Gnosticism: From the Hammadi to the Gospel of Judas. Unfortunately, my book reading is wrapped up in the Gospel of John.

Giuseppe
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Re: Why the Gnostics wanted that the Jews abandoned YHWH

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:28 am

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:59 am
The only sect that could be said view the demiurge as being malevolent were Cainites. Not even the Marcionites thought he was evil, only just.
well then, I can correct the my definition above to satisfy Joseph D.L.
Gnostic = Ophite, Naassene, Cainite.

Are you happy, now?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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DCHindley
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Re: Why the Gnostics wanted that the Jews abandoned YHWH

Post by DCHindley » Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:42 pm

G,

I'm not sure why you defined Gnostics as "haters of YHWH." I think that all "big G" Gnostics had convinced themselves that the physical world was far inferior to the world of pure ideas, which was full of goodness, with the world of ideas and fullness having divine principals that were much superior to physical divine principals.

The gods of this world were/are real, but ignorant of the physical world's true origin, and they would continue to rule the physical world despite what anyone physical thought of them. The Judean God was severely "just," and Gnostics felt that this justness fell short of the kind of unity that they believed must exist in the full world. In fact, the divine entities in the Pleroma (the world of fullness) even arranged for there to be a rescue mission to allow certain elements of the full world trapped in this physical garb to escape it and return to the world of fullness (e.g., Stauros).

"Big G" Gnostics believed that individual souls could realize this situation (like they had done) and get out, but had to do so by back doors, much like hackers do today with complex computer programs. Unlike modern hackers, who often try to subvert the best intentions of the original code writers, they had no intention of destroying the physical world and its gods, only to escape it/them. The gods of this physical world had the best of intentions, and would continue forever. The Gnostic wanted nothing to do with it anymore, but until they succeeded in finding the way back to fullness they had to live in it, and use the myths invented by the gods of this world to help the searching soul to also escape with them.

DCH

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