Giuseppe wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:09 pm
they assumed the existence of YHWH but they hated him.
First, they didn't assume. They believed. Jews don't assume. They believe. Christians don't assume. They believe.
Second, they, or at least Marcion, didn't hate him. They only viewed him as a god of justice.
Do Jews hate YHWH because they accept passages like
Exodus 15:3? or the deluge? or the killing of children for mocking their prophet's bald pate? No, they don't. (That last one is pretty funny, as Paul is depicted as being bald).
It is called dualism.
Which they didn't adhere to because their theological structure was hierarchical, not dualistic. Not only was the Father above YHWH, he was considered the more powerful of the two. Dualism is half-and-half, which the Marcionites outright rejected.
The view proposed by you is called ditheism: adoration of two gods, beyond if one was greater than the other.
They didn't "adore" YHWH, and they didn't worship him either, so how could it be ditheism? They only accepted his role as creator of the earthen realm. They worshiped the Father as the true god. If anything they were henotheistic, acknowledging the existence of multiple gods without actually worshiping all of them. The only problem with that definition is that Marcion was operating within the Jewish traditions of his time, which accepted that there were two powers, YHWH and Metatron. He, following the Alexandrian tradition, said the two powers were Elohim, the Father, and YHWH.
The Catholics follow before Peter and then Paul: they held them both as apostles. They deny that Simon Magus was a true apostle but they assume the existence of Simon Magus. Your logical fallacy is to believe that hostility against YHWH = denial of the existence of YHWH.
What? I never said any such thing Giuseppe, you lying piece of swine excrement.
What
YOU said was "
To say that YHWH was "only a second god" for Marcion is equivalent to say that Marcion adored YHWH, which is blatantly absurd.
" which implies that Marcion just denied the existence of YHWH, which he didn't, because Marcion unambigiously accepted YHWH as being a real creative power, only lesser in status to the Father, i.e.
A SECOND GOD. To say otherwise is to say that they rejected YHWH's very existence, which they didn't.
So get this through your thick skull:
1) Marcion did not hate YHWH
2) Marcion did not think YHWH was evil
3) Marcion did not worship YHWH
4) Marcion did not rejected or deny YHWH's role in
Genesis 2
5) Marcion did accept YHWH as real and as demiurgos
6) Marcion believed there was a higher power above YHWH
7) Marcion worshiped this god as creator par excellence.
So you are wrong. On every point you have ever made and will ever make, because your entire conception of gnosticism, Marcion, and Christianity in general, is soarly wrong and boarders on retardation.
Do everyone here the favour of removing yourself from this forum.