FINALLY! The correct answer has been posted...

[Ulan]

The authorities needed the means of verifying that everyone paid the tax. This requires the creation of tax rolls to account for each person. Whether they have to travel or not is irrelevant. It's not like they're going to have to return to their homeland each year as they would if this were an annual tax.

So, let's say you are a citizen of the Netherlands and your great-grandfather is from Poland. What tax purpose would it fulfill if you went to Poland to get counted?

[Mental flatliner]

The authorities needed the means of verifying that everyone paid the tax. This requires the creation of tax rolls to account for each person. Whether they have to travel or not is irrelevant. It's not like they're going to have to return to their homeland each year as they would if this were an annual tax.

So, let's say you are a citizen of the Netherlands and your great-grandfather is from Poland. What tax purpose would it fulfill if you went to Poland to get counted?

When you attempt to distort the facts in order to make a point, why would anyone take you seriously?
What need do you have to make the problem bigger than it was?

1--Prove to me that a large number of people would have had to travel at all.
2--Tell me why you're turning a 50 to 60 mile journey into one of 1000 miles and pretending this is reasonable?

[Ulan]

1--Prove to me that a large number of people would have had to travel at all.

This has nothing to do with the question at hand, which was "why". The travel serves no purpose.

2--Tell me why you're turning a 50 to 60 mile journey into one of 1000 miles and pretending this is reasonable?

More like 500 miles, which you can easily do with your car in a day. Other than 50 miles by foot. Again, the question is: Why go to a different country?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Wikipedia isn't a source.

You can follow the links on the wiki pages, but the major source is Josephus:

Archelaus's country was assigned to Syria for purposes of paying tribute, and Quirinius, a man of highest rank, was sent by Caesar to take a census of things in Syria and to make an account of Archelaus's estate.
(Antiquities [3.1])

Quirinius was a man of the Senate, who had held other offices, and after going through them all achieved the highest rank. He had a great reputation for other reasons, too. He arrived in Syria with some others, for he was sent by Caesar as a governor, and to be an assessor of their worth. Coponius, who held the rank of knight, was sent along with him to take total command over the Jews. And Quirinius also went to Judaea, since it became part of Syria, to take a census of their worth and to make an account of the possessions of Archelaus.
(Aniquities 3.2)]

Here Josephus is twice saying that Qurinius took over Governorship of Syria and Judea after Judea was taken away from Herod's son, Archelaus, and annexed onto the Syrian province. Already, that means Herod the Great had to have been dead or else his son would not have been Tetrarch in Judea. But how long was Archelaus in power in Judea? Josephus tells us that too:

In the tenth year of Archelaus's government the leading men in Judaea and Samaria could not endure his cruelty and tyranny and accused him before Caesar...and when Caesar heard this, he went into a rage...and sent Archelaus into exile...to Vienna, and took away his property.
(Antiquities 3.3])

Here's another money shot:

Quirinius made an account of Archelaus' property and finished conducting the census, which happened in the thirty-seventh year after Caesar's defeat of Antony at Actium.

(Antiquities 3.4])

Josephus is corroborated by some other writings (such as Justin Martyr who claims that Jesus was born during the census of 6 CE and says people can still check the records) as well as things like coins confirming the regnal dates of Herod's sons and the Governors of Syria.

This is not obscure information. It should be well known to anyone who has spent any time studying the Herodian period.

[Mental flatliner]

Wikipedia isn't a source.

You can follow the links on the wiki pages, but the major source is Josephus:

I don't follow links, and I don't use Wiki.

You either have legitimate sources or you don't.

If you don't understand your own links well enough to explain them in your own words, I won't waste my time doing your job.

**************
These were your claims:

--Judea was never under his jurisdiction
--and he never imposed a census or tax there
--There was no Roman census in Judea until 6 CE. That's a fact.
--If Luke thought otherwise, Luke was wrong.
--Luke was wrong about a lot of things. That's not remarkable.

Your links don't even come close to demonstrating them as believable.

I can blow one out of the water the moment I find a single quote from Josephus showing that the president of Syria had jurisdiction over Judea when Antipater was king, or with Herod.

If you don't plan to back up your statements, don't respond to my posts.

[PhilosopherJay]

Hi Mental flatliner,

Perhaps, I should have used the term folk tales rather than fairy tales. When I said that we were dealing with fairy tales, I did not mean to be derogatory. I meant to be objective. Vladimir Propp's "Mophology of the Russian Folk Tale" helped me enormously to understand the gospels. Propp gives us 31 functions in folk tales/fairy tales (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Propp):

After the initial situation is depicted, the tale takes the following sequence of 31 functions:

ABSENTATION: A member of a family leaves the security of the home environment. This may be the hero or some other member of the family that the hero will later need to rescue. This division of the cohesive family injects initial tension into the storyline. The hero may also be introduced here, often being shown as an ordinary person.
INTERDICTION: An interdiction is addressed to the hero ('don't go there', 'don't do this'). The hero is warned against some action (given an 'interdiction').
VIOLATION of INTERDICTION. The interdiction is violated (villain enters the tale). This generally proves to be a bad move and the villain enters the story, although not necessarily confronting the hero. Perhaps they are just a lurking presence or perhaps they attack the family whilst the hero is away.
RECONNAISSANCE: The villain makes an attempt at reconnaissance (either villain tries to find the children/jewels etc.; or intended victim questions the villain). The villain (often in disguise) makes an active attempt at seeking information, for example searching for something valuable or trying to actively capture someone. They may speak with a member of the family who innocently divulges information. They may also seek to meet the hero, perhaps knowing already the hero is special in some way.
DELIVERY: The villain gains information about the victim. The villain's seeking now pays off and he or she now acquires some form of information, often about the hero or victim. Other information can be gained, for example about a map or treasure location.
TRICKERY: The villain attempts to deceive the victim to take possession of victim or victim's belongings (trickery; villain disguised, tries to win confidence of victim). The villain now presses further, often using the information gained in seeking to deceive the hero or victim in some way, perhaps appearing in disguise. This may include capture of the victim, getting the hero to give the villain something or persuading them that the villain is actually a friend and thereby gaining collaboration.
COMPLICITY: Victim taken in by deception, unwittingly helping the enemy. The trickery of the villain now works and the hero or victim naively acts in a way that helps the villain. This may range from providing the villain with something (perhaps a map or magical weapon) to actively working against good people (perhaps the villain has persuaded the hero that these other people are actually bad).
VILLAINY or LACK: Villain causes harm/injury to family member (by abduction, theft of magical agent, spoiling crops, plunders in other forms, causes a disappearance, expels someone, casts spell on someone, substitutes child etc., commits murder, imprisons/detains someone, threatens forced marriage, provides nightly torments); Alternatively, a member of family lacks something or desires something (magical potion etc.). There are two options for this function, either or both of which may appear in the story. In the first option, the villain causes some kind of harm, for example carrying away a victim or the desired magical object (which must be then be retrieved). In the second option, a sense of lack is identified, for example in the hero's family or within a community, whereby something is identified as lost or something becomes desirable for some reason, for example a magical object that will save people in some way.
MEDIATION: Misfortune or lack is made known, (hero is dispatched, hears call for help etc./ alternative is that victimized hero is sent away, freed from imprisonment). The hero now discovers the act of villainy or lack, perhaps finding their family or community devastated or caught up in a state of anguish and woe.
BEGINNING COUNTER-ACTION: Seeker agrees to, or decides upon counter-action. The hero now decides to act in a way that will resolve the lack, for example finding a needed magical item, rescuing those who are captured or otherwise defeating the villain. This is a defining moment for the hero as this is the decision that sets the course of future actions and by which a previously ordinary person takes on the mantle of heroism.
DEPARTURE: Hero leaves home;
FIRST FUNCTION OF THE DONOR: Hero is tested, interrogated, attacked etc., preparing the way for his/her receiving of a magical agent or helper (donor);
HERO'S REACTION: Hero reacts to actions of future donor (withstands/fails the test, frees captive, reconciles disputants, performs service, uses adversary's powers against him);
RECEIPT OF A MAGICAL AGENT: Hero acquires use of a magical agent (directly transferred, located, purchased, prepared, spontaneously appears, eaten/drunk, help offered by other characters);
GUIDANCE: Hero is transferred, delivered or led to whereabouts of an object of the search;
STRUGGLE: Hero and villain join in direct combat;
BRANDING: Hero is branded (wounded/marked, receives ring or scarf);
VICTORY: Villain is defeated (killed in combat, defeated in contest, killed while asleep, banished);
LIQUIDATION: Initial misfortune or lack is resolved (object of search distributed, spell broken, slain person revived, captive freed);
RETURN: Hero returns;
PURSUIT: Hero is pursued (pursuer tries to kill, eat, undermine the hero);
RESCUE: Hero is rescued from pursuit (obstacles delay pursuer, hero hides or is hidden, hero transforms unrecognisably, hero saved from attempt on his/her life);
UNRECOGNIZED ARRIVAL: Hero unrecognized, arrives home or in another country;
UNFOUNDED CLAIMS: False hero presents unfounded claims;
DIFFICULT TASK: Difficult task proposed to the hero (trial by ordeal, riddles, test of strength/endurance, other tasks);
SOLUTION: Task is resolved;
RECOGNITION: Hero is recognized (by mark, brand, or thing given to him/her);
EXPOSURE: False hero or villain is exposed;
TRANSFIGURATION: Hero is given a new appearance (is made whole, handsome, new garments etc.);
PUNISHMENT: Villain is punished;
WEDDING: Hero marries and ascends the throne (is rewarded/promoted).

It is hard not to see that most of these folk tale elements are in each of the Gospels. The order is optional and not all functions need to be in any particular folk tale.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin

Because we are dealing with fairy tales, we may say that the events in Matthew and Luke took 2 days or twenty years, as we wish.

This is an unnecessary and bigoted remark. It is also an obviously false remark, characteristic of low education. Apparently you don't have enough mental horsepower to stop yourself from the full disclosure of your ignorance.

I started with a serious response that corrected your information (you present quite a few errors in your interpretation). Based on your bias, I now know why you strive to stretch time beyond reason. You have a desire to render the gospels as ridiculous as your world view requires.

[Mental flatliner]

Perhaps, I should have used the term folk tales rather than fairy tales.

You don't have a basis for calling them folk tales.

So why would you say it? How are you so threatened by events of 2000 years ago that you must micharacterize them?

The gospels are original historical texts whether you want them to be or not. When you use language like this, you come across as a bigot. I for one can't address you as I would any other adult.

[TedM]

When you engage in the comparison of names across linguistic barriers (Semitic to Greek to Latin to English), what you're doing is attempting to force an ambiguous detail through several filters and expect a level of precision in the result that no longer exists.

I am very suspicious of attempts to show ancient names in different languages as being similar, but I'm not really following your claim here. Why do you reject the idea that Josephus and Luke used the exact same name, if in fact it IS the exact same name in the Greek language? Is this because you claim Luke was NOT written in Greek and so the Roman name of the governor of Syria in 4BC could have been something different that would not be the same in Greek? How do you account for them being the same in Greek if it was a different name? Was it coincidence that it was the same name in Greek? Or something else. Can you please further explain your views here, as this seems a most unusual stance on this issue.

[spin]

We do rise for the idiots. It appears Mental Flatliner has forcibly left us.

[DCHindley]

Just for the record, the following list of Roman Governors is culled from the English translation of Emil Shürer's Jewish People in the Age of Jesus Christ, volume 1, as revised by Geza Vermes and Fergus Miller, with Matthew Black, 1973.

Known Governors of Syria from the times of Octavian/Augustus to the end of the period covered by Acts:

Under Octavian 31 BCE to 14 CE:
*Q. Didius, 30 BC. Judea is part of the domain of King Herod 40 BCE to his death ca. 4 BCE.
*M. Valerius Messala Corvinus, 29 BC
*M. Tullius Cicero, 29-27 BC? (27-25 BC)?
*(M. Terentius?) Varro, 24-23 BC?
*M. Vipsanius Agrippa, 23-13 BC
*M. Titius, c. 10 BC
*C. Sentius Saturninus, ?10/9-?7/6 BC
*P. Quinctilius Varus, 7/6-4 BC
*?L. Calpernius Piso,? c. 4-1 BC “The much discussed acephalous inscription from Tibur (ILS 918) does not show an earlier governorship of Syria by P. Sulpicius Quirinius (see below), and may well, as has been argued in recent years (Syme, Roman Revolution, p. 398; B. M. Levick, Roman Colonies in Southern Asia Minor (1967), pp. 208-9), relate to L. Calpernius Piso, the pontifex, consul in 15 B.C.” (Shurer-Vermes-Miller-Black, JPAJC, p258) Judea is part of domain of Ethnarch Archelaus ca 4 BCE to 6 C.
*(? P. Sulpicius Quirinius ? 4-2 BC) “It has often been argued that P. Sulpicius Quirinius was twice legatus of Syria, once from about A.D. 6 (see below), and once earlier. The case for the latter rests on (a) Luke 2:1 ..., which thus seems (cf. Luke 1:5) to date a Roman census conducted by Quirinius to the lifetime of Herod the Great; hence, such a census, and a governorship of Quirinius, would have to be an earlier one than that of A.D. 6, in which year he also conducted a census both of Syria and the newly absorbed province of Judea. This thesis has seemed to be supported by the inscription from Tibur (ILS 918) which records, int. al. that the unnamed senator whose career is inscribed “[legatus pr. pr] divi Augusti iterum Syriam et Ph[oenicem optinuit]’. In spite of the recent doubts of A. N. Sherwin-White, Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament (1963), pp. 163-4, this will, however, mean not that the man was twice legatus of Syria, but that his second legateship was that of Syria. The inscription more probably relates to L. Calpurnius Piso (see above). There is no good reason to think that Quirinius was governor of Syria at any time before A.D. 6. During the war which he fought against the Homonadenses (Strabo xii 6, 5 (567); Tac. Ann. iii 49), probably in the period c. 4-3 B.C., he was probably legatus of Galatia-Pamphylia, not of Syria (see Levick, Roman Colonies, pp. 203-14).” (Shurer-Vermes-Miller-Black, JPTJC, pp. 258-9).Judea is part of domain of Ethnarch Archelaus ca 4 BCE to 6 C.
*(? C. Iulius Caesar, 1 BC-AD4) (the grandson of Augustus). Judea is part of domain of Ethnarch Archelaus ca 4 BCE to 6 C.
*L. Volusius Saturninus, AD 4-5. Judea is part of domain of Ethnarch Archelaus ca 4 BCE to 6 C.
*P. Sulpicius Quirinius, AD 6-?? “After the banishment of Archelaus, the ethnarch of Judea, in A.D. 6, P. Sulpicius Quirinius travelled to Syria and immediately after his arrival undertook a census of Judea (Jos. Ant. xvii 13,5 (355); xviii 1,1 ; 2,1 (26); referred to in Luke 2:1; see above and pp. 399-427). How long he remained governor cannot be determined.” (Shurer-Vermes-Miller-Black, JPTJC, p259). Prefects of Judea were: Coponius AD 6 - 9 and M. Ambivius AD 9 - 12?
*Q. Caecilius Metellus Creticus Silannus, AD 12-14. Prefect of Judea was Annius Rufus AD 12 - 14

Under Tiberius 14 - 37 CE:
*Q. Caecilius Metellus Creticus Silannus, AD 14 - 17. Prefects of Judea Annius Rufus AD 14 - 15? and Valerius Gratus AD 15 - 17.
*Cn Calpurnius Piso, AD 17-19. Prefect of Judea Valerius Gratus AD 17 - 19.
*Cn Sentius Saturninus, AD 19-21. Prefect of Judea Valerius Gratus AD 19 - 21
Unknown, AD 21 - ??. Prefects of Judea Valerius Gratus AD 21 - 26 and Pontius Pilate AD 26 - ??
*L. Aelius Lamia, ??-AD 32. Prefect of Judea Pontius Pilate AD ?? - 32
*L. Pomponius Flaccus, AD 32-35 (?). Prefect of Judea Pontius Pilate AD 32 - 35
*L. Vitellius, AD 35-37? (this is the father of the future emperor Vitellius). Prefects of Judea Pontius Pilate AD 36, and Marcellus AD 36 - 37

Under Gaius (Caligula) AD 37 - 41:
*L. Vitellius, AD 37-39? Prefect of Judea was Marullus AD 37 - 39?
*P. Petronius, AD 39?-41 (this is the famous Governor who resisted implimenting Gaius’ plan to erect his statue in the Jewish Temple until after his assasination, thus preventing a revolt, the story of which is nowhere even hinted at in Act’s account of this same period). Prefect of Judea was Marullus AD 39 - 41.

Under Claudius AD 41 - 54:
*P. Petronius, AD 41-42. Prefects of Judea were Marullus AD 41? Agrippa I made King of almost all of Herod's old domains AD 41-42. Possible Unknown person managed Judea/Samaria for him until he arrived to receive his kingdom, AD 42.
*C. Vibius Marsus, AD 41/2-44/5. Agrippa I is King of almost all of Herod's old domains AD 42-44.
*C. Cassius Longinus, AD 44/5-c. 50. Procurators of Judea were C. Cuspius Fadus AD 45 - 46, Tiberius Julius Alexander, AD 46 - 48, and Ventidius Cumanus, AD 48 - 50
*Ummidius Durmius Quadratus, AD 50 - 54. Procurators of Judea were Ventidius Cumanus, AD 50 - 52 and M. Antonius Felix, AD 52 - 54

Under Nero AD 54 - 68:
*Ummidius Durmius Quadratus, AD 54 - 60. Procurator of Judea was M. Antonius Felix, AD 54 - 60
*Cn Domitius Corbulo, AD 60-63. Procurators of Judea were Porcius Festus, AD 60 - 62? and Lucceius Albinus, AD 62? - 63
*C. Cestius Gallus, AD ?63-67. Procurators of Judea were Lucceius Albinus, AD 63 - 64 and Gessius Florus, AD 64 - 66
[From here on Governors of Syria are from Wiki]
Gaius Licinius Mucianus AD 67 - 69. Judea and war zone governed independently of Syria by Sex. Vellunius Cerialis, AD 67 - 68

Under Galba/Otho/Vitellius AD 69:
Gaius Licinius Mucianus AD 69. Judea and war zone governed independently of Syria by Sex. Vellunius Cerialis, AD 67 - 68

Under Vespasian AD 69 - 79:
Lucius Caesennius Paetus AD 70 - 72. Judea and war zone governed independently of Syria by Sex. Vellunius Cerialis, AD 69.
Aulus Marius Celsus AD 72 - 73. Judea and war zone governed independently by Lucilius Bassus, AD 69 - 73, and L. Laberius Maximus was his Procurator in part of this period
Marcus Ulpius Traianus AD 73 - 78. Judea and war zone governed independently by L. Flavius Silva Nonius Bassus, AD 73/74 - 79

Under Titus AD 79 - 81:
78 - 82 Lucius Ceionius Commodus. Governor of Judea (not sure if now still Procurators or back to Prefects) L. Flavius Silva Nonius Bassus, AD 79 - 81

Under Domitian AD 81 - 96:
82 - 84 Titus Atilius Rufus. Governor of Judea is Cn. Pompeius Longinus, AD 86, rest of time unsure
87 - 90 Publius Valerius Patruinus. Governor of Judea is unsure
90 - 93 Aulus Bucius Lappius Maximus. Governor of Judea was Sex. Hermetidus Campanus, AD 93, rest of time unsure
93 - 96 Gaius Octavius Tidius Tossianus L. Iavolenus Priscus. Governor of Judea is unsure

Under Nerva AD 96 - 98:
96 - 97 Marcus Cornelius Nigrinus Curiatius Maternus. Governor of Judea is unsure
97 - 100 Aulus Larcius Priscus. Governor of Judea is unsure

Under Trajan AD 98 - 117:
100 - 104 Gaius Antius Aulus Julius Quadratus
104 - 108 Aulus Cornelius Palma Frontonianus
108 - 112 Lucius Fabius Iustus
117 Publius Aelius Hadrianus
The governors of Judea in this period are very uncertain. Cl(audius) Pater(nus) Clement(ianus), late 1st century AD; Agnitus, early 2nd century AD; Atticus [Ti. Claudius Atticus Herodes?], AD 99/100? - 102/103? [but AD 107 per Eusebius]; C. Iulius Quadratus Bassus, ca. AD 102/3 - 104/5; Q. Roscius Coelius Pompieus Falco, ca. AD 105 - 107; [C. Avidius Ceionius Commodus], after AD 102; Tiberianus (?), ca. AD 114

Under Hadrian AD 117 - 138:
117 - 119 Lucius Catilius Severus Iulianus Claudius Reginus. Only governor of Judea known is Lucius Quietus, ca. AD 117
129 - 136 Gaius Quinctius Certus Poblicius Marcellus. Known governors of Judea are Q. Tineius Rufus, AD 132, C. Quinctius Certius Publicius Marcellus, ca AD 133 - 135, and (Cn. Minicius Faustinus) Sex. Iulius Severus, AD 135

Enjoy!

DCH