One of the two witnesses of Revelation was called Jesus/Joshua

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
davidmartin
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Re: One of the two witnesses of Revelation was called Jesus/Joshua

Post by davidmartin » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:44 am

and Cerinthus, the likely author

Hard to see this revelation as 'Christian' in any sense

Giuseppe
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Re: One of the two witnesses of Revelation was called Jesus/Joshua

Post by Giuseppe » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:36 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:41 am
I should correct the my original argument in this sense.

We have a lacuna here, in the omissis:

8 and their dead bodies ... upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)

But the Christian interpolator, by introducing the interpolation:

where also our Lord was crucified

...has betrayed where he had read the verbe "crucified", i.e. in reference to the two witnesses, precisely in the omissis above.

Hence the original text was the following:


8 and their dead bodies were crucified upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt.

Psalm 43:3:
O send out thy light and thy truth

"thy light": he is the precursor of the Messiah, who has to reveal him. He is therefore an illuminator, a prophet. He is Joshua in Zechariah 6:11 :
Take the silver and gold and make a crown, and set it on the head of the high priest, Joshua son of Jozadak.

"thy light": he is the Messiah, the Anointed one. He is Zorobabel in Zecharia 6.12.

Tell him this is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘Here is the man whose name is the Branch, and he will branch out from his place and build the temple of the Lord.

It is curious that the preaching of the two witnesses of Revelation will continue for 1260 days == 3,5 years (1 year = 360 days).

This is the reason the preaching of Jesus in proto-John continues for 3,5 years.

The Jesus of proto-John is the perfect anti-thesis of the Joshua Celestial Warrior of Revelation.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Location: Italy

Re: One of the two witnesses of Revelation was called Jesus/Joshua

Post by Giuseppe » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:48 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:36 am
It is curious that the preaching of the two witnesses of Revelation will continue for 1260 days == 3,5 years (1 year = 360 days).

This is the reason the preaching of Jesus in proto-John continues for 3,5 years.

The Jesus of proto-John is the perfect anti-thesis of the Joshua Celestial Warrior of Revelation.
It seems as if proto-John had made one of the precursor of the Christ of the author of Revelation (in my view: the original "John the Baptist", lived around the 70 CE) the real Christ (aptly spiritualized) and "John" the his mere precursor, while the original text of Revelation had reduced Joshua to the role of mere precursor of the Messiah Warrior predicted by the original John.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

klewis
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Re: One of the two witnesses of Revelation was called Jesus/Joshua

Post by klewis » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:00 am

Chapters 11 & 12 are complicated because John is overlaying many sections of Hebrew scriptures with different purposes as well as different time frames.

Here is where we will agree. It is in the Gospel of John that we get the idea that Jesus' ministry lasted at least 3 years. The two prophets, are killed, raised, and ascend to heaven just like Jesus.

However, does the 3 1/2 years represent the ministry of Jesus or does it represent the length of the first revolt with the destruction of Jerusalem as its final climax. That was roughly around 3 1/2 years. Since one of the primary texts used to construct Revelation is the book of Ezekiel, and Ezekiel, for the most part, talks about the destruction of Jerusalem. It is likely the 3 1/2 years dialog is used for Jerusalem. The source that John used to construct the parallel is from Ezekiel chapter 4 (see below). Where as Ezekiel laid on one side, and the other side, and then added the days up, that determine the siege of Jerusalem, so was the ministry of the two prophets added up to the length of the siege of Jerusalem.

In my book, I also added a few possibilities to the mix.

Image

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