Was the birth story in Luke/Matthew originally referred to John the Baptist

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Giuseppe
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Re: Was the birth story in Luke/Matthew originally referred to John the Baptist

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:21 am

The real reason Jesus considered John as the Last of the Prophets was that he wrote the original Book of Revelation. Only the Christian respect for this Jewish Book was the reason John was co-opted/deformed in the Christian tradition.

I note the same ambiguity, among the Christians, about John and about the Book of Revelation. Hence, the two items were originally connected.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Was the birth story in Luke/Matthew originally referred to John the Baptist

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:42 pm

Herod persecutor is obviously a midrash on Pharaon, etc.

But the implicit assumption is that Herod was enemy of the true king of Jews. Herod is an usurper. Hence who invented the story of Herod persecutor is assuming that Jesus, for the reader, is the true "king of Jews". He is the Jewish Christ.

His polemical target are the deniers of the Jewishness of Jesus.

ADDENDA:

If it was not for the intention to point out that Jesus is the "king of Jews" against rival Christian deniers, Herod could be not even named as persecutor etc.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: Was the birth story in Luke/Matthew originally referred to John the Baptist

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:45 am

RG Price is correct about the author of John not being John but he explains the false paternity by simply a mistake due to mere total ignorance by later editors.

Really, if proto-John was written against the book of Revelation, then you can explain:

1) why the Jesus of proto-John exhorts to universal love: he neutralizes so the Jesus Hater of Revelation.

2) why the Beloved Disciple was named "John": to connect him with the author of the Book of Revelation. In this way the rivalry between the two books could be eclipsed.

3) why the Jesus of proto-John dislikes his mother in Cana: she is a parody of the celestial Mother in Revelation

4) why John the Baptist preaches the coming of a Destroyer, but in his place a Pacifist Jesus arrives. "John the Baptist" was the original author of Revelation.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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