Secret Alias wrote: ↑Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:34 pmThe sentence in question is:And I don't think that "all the other gospels came into being because of the Hebrew gospel." Not even Papias says this.
Whatever we decide Matthew wrote in Hebrew, it clearly implies a seminal influence of this text over everyone and everything else - except Mark which seems to have been written earlier, where Matthew was a response to what Mark wrote. Clearly Ehrman hits the nail on the head when he writes:Matthew put together the oracles [of the Lord] in the Hebrew language, and each one interpreted them as best he could.
what he [Papias] actually says about Matthew and Mark are not true of our Matthew and Mark, and so either he is talking about *other* Gospels that he knows about (or has heard about) called Matthew and Mark, that do not correspond to our Matthew and Mark, or he simply is wrong.
I agree that what Papias says about the original Hebrew Matthew does not correspond with the NT Matthew, given that the NT Matthew is of course in Greek and not Hebrew, but I think it could correspond with translations that were made of it, in the sense that I think at least part of the NT Matthew incorporated at least one translation of the Hebrew Matthew (for the "double tradition").
I would need to see more that Ehrman says about what Papias says about Mark in order to know why he thinks it does "not correspond with" the NT Mark. I can't see the case he makes for it on his blog without paying for it.
I'll give Ehrman's argument a fair shake if you can post it here though, but for now I am in agreement with Ben and Bauckham that it is not certain from Eusebius' citations of Papias that the latter said that the Hebrew Matthew was written in response to Mark, and I also agree with Ben that Papias' "logia" refers to sayings and doings, i.e., a "gospel" (which I think was the Hebrew Matthew used by Nazarene Christians).
But whichever was written first, I think Mark was independent of Matthew because it was based on Peter's teaching and thus didn't need the Hebrew Matthew (if the latter was written first) or any of its translations.
And I think translations of the Hebrew Matthew influenced not necessarily "everyone and everything else," just (parts of) the NT Matthew (at least the double tradition), and (parts of) Luke (Special Luke and the double tradition), and the Ebionite Matthew.