Mark, the Jews and the destruction of the temple

[neilgodfrey]

I'm glad you didn't think through or follow up any of the earlier points suggesting alternatives to such a simplistic argument. Wouldn't want to confuse anyone here with complexities, ambiguities or alternative viewpoints.

[beowulf]

Shebna's tomb

Hundreds of rock-cut tombs were constructed in Israel in ancient times. They were cut into the rock, sometimes with elaborate facades and multiple burial chambers. Some are free-standing, but most are caves. Each tomb typically belonged to a single, wealthy family. Bodies were laid out on stone benches. After a generation, the bones were moved to a bone chamber or, later, into ossuaries and the benches used for new burials. Rock tombs were the province of the wealthy; the common people were buried in the ground.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-cut_t ... ent_Israel



The village of Silwan is situated on the east slope of the Kidron Valley, opposite the 'City of David' - the site of biblical Jerusalem (Fig. 1). A monumental necropolis dated to the later part of the First Temple period, when Jerusalem was the capital of the kingdom of Judah, is situated within the present-day village. About fifty rock-cut tombs are situated in the vertical cliffs which extend along the slope.
http://archaeology.tau.ac.il/?page_id=2047

[neilgodfrey]

Shebna's tomb

Hundreds of rock-cut tombs were constructed in Israel in ancient times. They were cut into the rock, sometimes with elaborate facades and multiple burial chambers. Some are free-standing, but most are caves. Each tomb typically belonged to a single, wealthy family. Bodies were laid out on stone benches. After a generation, the bones were moved to a bone chamber or, later, into ossuaries and the benches used for new burials. Rock tombs were the province of the wealthy; the common people were buried in the ground.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-cut_t ... ent_Israel



The village of Silwan is situated on the east slope of the Kidron Valley, opposite the 'City of David' - the site of biblical Jerusalem (Fig. 1). A monumental necropolis dated to the later part of the First Temple period, when Jerusalem was the capital of the kingdom of Judah, is situated within the present-day village. About fifty rock-cut tombs are situated in the vertical cliffs which extend along the slope.
http://archaeology.tau.ac.il/?page_id=2047

That's nice. I'm not sure how it advances anything related to Mark's relationship with Isaiah, however.

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

* = For pastophorion see LXX Jer 42(35):4; LXX 1 Chr 9:26; 23:28; Josephus, War, 4:582; Also Jerome, Comm. Jes. CCL.73.305. See further van der Kooij's excurus on a "library" (scriptorium) in the "treasury" room annex to the "court of the priests", where official scrolls were kept and scribal activity took place. . . . . .

It seems that the pastophorion was a personal workroom of a priest or a store room of the temple.

Jeremias 42:4
and I brought them into the house of the Lord, into the chamber (παστοφόριον) of the sons of Joanan, the son of Ananias, the son of Godolias, a man of God, who dwells near the house of the princes that are over the house of Maasaeas the son of Selom, who kept the court.

1 Esra 9:1
Then Esdras rising from the court of the temple went to the chamber (παστοφόριον) of Joanan the son of Eliasib

Ezekiel 40:17
And he brought me into the inner court, and, behold, [there were] chambers (παστοφόρια) , and peristyles round about the court; thirty chambers (παστοφόρια) within the ranges of columns.

1 Maccabees 4:38
And when they saw the sanctuary desolate, and the altar profaned, and the gates burned up, and shrubs growing in the courts as in a forest, or in one of the mountains, yea, and the priests’ chambers (παστοφόρια) pulled down

1 Maccabees 4:57
They decked also the forefront of the temple with crowns of gold, and with shields; and the gates and the chambers (παστοφόρια) they renewed, and hanged doors upon them.

1 Chronicles 9:26
For four strong [men] have the charge of the gates; and the Levites were over the chambers (παστοφορίων), and they keep watch over the treasures of the house of God.

1 Chronicles 23:28
For he appointed them to wait on Aaron, to minister in the house of the Lord, over the courts, and over the chambers (παστοφόρια), and over the purification of all the holy things, and over the works of the service of the house of God

1 Chronicles 28:12
and the plan which he had in his mind of the courts of the house of the Lord, and of all the chambers (παστοφορίων) round about, [designed] for the treasuries of the house of God, and of the treasuries of the holy things, and of the chambers for resting (καταλυμάτων)

2 Chronicles 31:11
And Ezekias told them yet farther to prepare chambers (παστοφόρια) for the house of the Lord; and they prepared [them], 12 and they brought thither the first-fruits and the tithes faithfully: and Chonenias the Levite was superintendent over them, and Semei his brother was next.

Josephus, War, 4:580-582
but having the advantage of situation, and having withal erected four very large towers aforehand, that their darts might come from higher places, one at the north-east corner of the court, one above the Xystus, the third at another corner over against the lower city, and the last was erected above the top of the Pastophoria, where one of the priests stood of course, and gave a signal beforehand, with a trumpet at the beginning of every seventh day, in the evening twilight, as also at the evening when that day was finished, as giving notice to the people when they were to leave off work, and when they were to go to work again.

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

Thus far we have found at least six reasons for answering the two questions positively. . . .

(3) The immediate context of LXX Isaiah 22 is concerned with an attack on Jerusalem. The graphic description of the fear and anxiety (22:1-14) . . . would have reminded Mark's readers of the startling and shocking tragedy of 70.

Central to the thesis of the relevance of this passage, of course, is the fact that it related directly to the imminent destruction of the Temple ...

Personally, I do not see it that way. Sorry, I still don't understand on which concrete path Somnas is connected with the destruction of the temple.

I have worked a bit in the speculative mode (Somnas = Simon Peter; Eliakim – the young man in the tomb, probably Paul)

On the other hand, there is another possibility. I have often asked myself whether it might be possible to construct a Peter-story from the "tomb carved out of a rock".

Mark 15:46
tomb carved out of a rock
μνημείῳ ὃ ἦν λελατομημένον ἐκ πέτρας
mnēmeiō ho ên lelatomêmenon ek petras

Isa 22:16 and the Transfiguration

LXX-Isaiah 22:16
and what hast thou to do here (ὧδε), that thou hast (ἐστιν) here (ὧδε) hewn thyself a sepulchre, and madest (ἐποίησας) thyself a sepulchre on high (ὑψηλῷ) , and hast graven for thyself a dwelling (σκηνήν) in the rock (πέτρα)?

Mark 9:2.5
He led them up a high (ὑψηλὸν) mountain ... Peter (Πέτρος) said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is (ἐστιν) good for us to be here (ὧδε). Let us put up (ποιήσωμεν) three shelters (σκηνάς) . One will be for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”

Isa 22:21 and the Resurrection

LXX-Isaiah 22:16
and I will put on him thy robe (στολήν)

Mark 16:5
they saw a young man dressed in a white robe (στολὴν)

To me it seems more likely that Somnas is connected with a Simon-Peter-story and not with the destruction of the temple.

[beowulf]

The Artscroll English Tanach
Stone Edition
Isaiah 22.15
Shebna's degradation


15 Thus said my Lord, Hashem/Elohim, Master of Legions: Go and approach that manager Shebna, (1)
(1) Isaiah condemns Shebna, a deputy of king Hezekiah ( see 2 kings chs. 18,19), who led a rebel party that wanted to capitulate to Senacherib.
who is in charge of the[ king's ]house.


16 [Tell him ]What have you here and whom have you here, that you have hewn yourself a grave here (2)
(2)so sure was Shebna that he was irreplaceable, that he hewed out a grave for himself in the royal section [on high ] of the burial ground (Radak).
you who digs his grave on high and carves out in the rock an abode for himself?


17 Behold , Hashem is going to make you wander an intense wandering and He will send you circling afar.

18 He will wind you around like a turban [ and hurl you like ] a ball to a land without obstacles (3)
(3) where the ball would keep rolling endlessly with nothing to stop it (Metzudos).
there you will die and there [ will die ] your chariot of honor--O shame of your master house


19 (4)
(4) 22.19-23 Until now the prophet has been speaking in his own voice, referring to God in the third person. In verse 19 he speaks in God's voice using the first person, then he switches back to the third person. For the reminder of the passage he reverts to the first person. This shifting of person and voice is not uncommon in prophecy (Radak).

I will oust you from your position, and He will bring you down from your post

20 It shall be on that day that I will call upon my servant, upon Eliakim son of Hilkiah

21 I will dress him with your tunic and gird him with your belt, and I will deliver your dominion into his hand, and he will be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the House of Judah.

22 I will place the key to the House of David on his shoulder (5)
(5) i.e. the affairs of the royal house will be arrange through him.
he will open and no one will close, he will close and no one will open.

N.B. ENDE

Auf Wiedersehen

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

Daniel

A few allusions, but I see only one that meets the two criteria: The abomination of desolation in Dan 9:27

allusion - Mark 13:14/LXX-Daniel 9:27

Mark 13:14
But when you see the abomination of desolation (βδέλυγμα τῆς ἐρημώσεως) standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand) ...

LXX-Daniel 9:27
and on the temple [shall be] the abomination of desolations (βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων); and a the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation.

further topic – destruction of the temple and the city

LXX- Daniel 9:26-27
26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint [the city] to desolations. 27 And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away:

little more informations online

Jonathan Wan Hei Lo, Contours and functions of Danielic references in the Gospel of Mark (a big fat book – free online)

[neilgodfrey]

Shebna's tomb

Hundreds of rock-cut tombs were constructed in Israel in ancient times. They were cut into the rock, sometimes with elaborate facades and multiple burial chambers. Some are free-standing, but most are caves. Each tomb typically belonged to a single, wealthy family. Bodies were laid out on stone benches. After a generation, the bones were moved to a bone chamber or, later, into ossuaries and the benches used for new burials. Rock tombs were the province of the wealthy; the common people were buried in the ground.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-cut_t ... ent_Israel



The village of Silwan is situated on the east slope of the Kidron Valley, opposite the 'City of David' - the site of biblical Jerusalem (Fig. 1). A monumental necropolis dated to the later part of the First Temple period, when Jerusalem was the capital of the kingdom of Judah, is situated within the present-day village. About fifty rock-cut tombs are situated in the vertical cliffs which extend along the slope.
http://archaeology.tau.ac.il/?page_id=2047

All that is very interesting and I have no problem accepting any of it but you still have not shown its relevance to Mark's use of Isaiah or even Isaiah's own literary depictions. Now what can you tell us about the genres and natures and contexts of the texts of Isaiah?

[neilgodfrey]

To me it seems more likely that Somnas is connected with a Simon-Peter-story . . . .

I must confess that Karel Hanhart himself makes the same ball-park connection. More specifically he suggests Shebna was a prototype of sorts of the Jewish leader representative Joseph of Arimathea and Eliakim, his replacement, of Peter.

[Ulan]

Is it actually always an "either... or" question, or can it be both? I have the feeling that our difficulties with coming to a clear understanding of everything in Mark are in part due to the point that he loaded his story with so many different allusions. For example, Beowulf's list doesn't contain any Jeremiah quotes, but they look very obvious, even more so after reading the paper in Kunigunde's link.