The mystery of the mark of the Beast, 666/616, is solved and it proves I am right about Hadrian

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Joseph D. L.
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The mystery of the mark of the Beast, 666/616, is solved and it proves I am right about Hadrian

Post by Joseph D. L. » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:35 am

https://books.google.com/books?id=JhsLY ... an&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=9ndjF ... en&f=false

Not to sound like a particular individual, but if the above authors are correct on their interpretation of the Sibylline Oracles, then I am proven right about everything I have ever said about Kitos, Hadrian, Lukuas, bar Kochba, Revelation ch. 11, ch. 13, ch. 14, and ch. 19, and the origins of Christianity.

This explains why 666/616, the equivalent of Nero, would be combined with a monetary policy. Because it is directly comparing Nero and Hadrian, the latter of whom was seen as the return of the former. It also explains why there is a confusion in the Talmud of Trajan and Hadrian. They are the two Beasts from Rev ch. 13.

It also confirms that Hadrian was seen as a messianic figure comparable to Cyrus by some later Jews and Christians, just as the Epistle of Barnabas seems to allude to.

Only two final pieces remain that will prove 100% that am right, and one of them is all but absolutely confirmed. The other relies too much on circumstantial evidence, but there is enough to have it at least considered. But everything points to Christianity emerging and being refined during the Kitos and bar Kochba revolts, with the major players turned into messiahs and beasts; Apostles and disciples.

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Re: The mystery of the mark of the Beast, 666/616, is solved and it proves I am right about Hadrian

Post by klewis » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:09 am

Perhaps the number 666 means the sixth seal, the sixth trumpet, and the sixth bowl and the author of Revelation didn't even think in the meaning of a number identifying the person.

The source material for the beast is from Daniel chapter 7 in which John split it up in chapters 13, 17, and 19. Each time he does it, he provides, what I coined as an "author's notation", a phrase of where the text was split (the gray text in the image below). It is not the 666, or 616 in the oldest manuscript, that should be focused on, but Revelation 17:9-14 where a chronology is given.

Image

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Re: The mystery of the mark of the Beast, 666/616, is solved and it proves I am right about Hadrian

Post by Ben C. Smith » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:28 am

klewis wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:09 am
Perhaps the number 666 means the sixth seal, the sixth trumpet, and the sixth bowl and the author of Revelation didn't even think in the meaning of a number identifying the person.
The problem with this is that gematria was a common and accepted name game in antiquity across multiple cultures, including all cultures relevant to the inquiry at hand. To announce that the number of the beast can be calculated, and that it represents a man (Revelation 13.18), and then not to use some kind of gematria is much like announcing that we will be playing chess before revealing that the game is actually going to be a car race.
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Re: The mystery of the mark of the Beast, 666/616, is solved and it proves I am right about Hadrian

Post by Joseph D. L. » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:07 am

klewis wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:09 am
The source material for the beast is from Daniel chapter 7 in which John split it up in chapters 13, 17, and 19. Each time he does it, he provides, what I coined as an "author's notation", a phrase of where the text was split (the gray text in the image below). It is not the 666, or 616 in the oldest manuscript, that should be focused on, but Revelation 17:9-14 where a chronology is given.
Klewis, a major flaw in your analysis, at least in my eyes, is that you reject any real world need for Revelation and that it is only comparative to inner textual sources and not external historical events. Why, under your hypothesis, which I'm not disagreeing with, was Revelation necessary? What was the motivation behind this text, or its source texts? [Ur-Revelation] Just like with Daniel, where historical events are masked under the guise of prophecy, the same principle applies to Revelation.

Xoroaster did an excellent series on Revelation and its use of historical events, and though I disagree with minor interpretations here and there, his explanation remains firm. Your textual analysis, while interesting, does not explain why Revelation needed to exist.

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Re: The mystery of the mark of the Beast, 666/616, is solved and it proves I am right about Hadrian

Post by Joseph D. L. » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:14 am

Ben C. Smith wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:28 am
klewis wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:09 am
Perhaps the number 666 means the sixth seal, the sixth trumpet, and the sixth bowl and the author of Revelation didn't even think in the meaning of a number identifying the person.
The problem with this is that gematria was a common and accepted name game in antiquity across multiple cultures, including all cultures relevant to the inquiry at hand. To announce that the number of the beast can be calculated, and that it represents a man (Revelation 13.18), and then not to use some kind of gematria is much like announcing that we will be playing chess before revealing that the game is actually going to be a car race.
Would this kind of line-drawing even be applicable with gematria? Where the combined total number is to be thought of as individual numbers? Would not, then, the number be the added total, 18? Or the multiplied total, 216? I admit I am completely ignorant on gematria.

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Re: The mystery of the mark of the Beast, 666/616, is solved and it proves I am right about Hadrian

Post by klewis » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:38 am

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:07 am

Klewis, a major flaw in your analysis, at least in my eyes, is that you reject any real world need for Revelation and that it is only comparative to inner textual sources and not external historical events. Why, under your hypothesis, which I'm not disagreeing with, was Revelation necessary? What was the motivation behind this text, or its source texts? [Ur-Revelation] Just like with Daniel, where historical events are masked under the guise of prophecy, the same principle applies to Revelation.

Xoroaster did an excellent series on Revelation and its use of historical events, and though I disagree with minor interpretations here and there, his explanation remains firm. Your textual analysis, while interesting, does not explain why Revelation needed to exist.
I don't disagree with the text being selected to depict a reality. Ezekiel, which is a book depicting the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem, which is what Revelation is depicting. However, much of the material that forms Revelation is derived from the source texts and may or may not be connected to the reality of the time the author is depicting. Sometimes, the text is altered ever so slightly, such as the four horsemen in Revelation 6:1-8 is derived from the four chariots in Zechariah 6:1-8. While other times, nothing was changed in the text itself.

I do place the writing of the book of Revelation in a historical framework. The timeline I set forth is that the book was published shortly after September 18, 96 CE and that John was predicting the end of the world in 105 CE. However, the bulk of my book is connected to the process in which he wrote it. The process is no different than how Genesis-Exodus, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Matthew, Luke-Acts, and numerous other works were written.

Also, I do agree that the Biblical writers loved to play with mathematics. The patriarchs (Abraham 175 years old = 5 x 5 x 7; Isaac 180 years old = 6 x 6 x 5, Jacob 147 year = 7 x 7 x 3, and Joseph 110 = (7 x 7) + (6 x 6) + (5 x 5)) The number 153 is a good example of triangular math https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/153_(number). However, the numbers in Revelation are for the most part derived from the source text then naturally. With that said, the 666 in Rev 13:18 and the numbers in Rev 17:9-14 are driven by the author's own ideas. I see the 666 as filler material placed at the bottom of a wax tablet. It could be germatria driven, or an indirect way John is communicating to the reader. The frustration is not knowing is it 616 or 666.

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Re: The mystery of the mark of the Beast, 666/616, is solved and it proves I am right about Hadrian

Post by Joseph D. L. » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:06 am

klewis wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:38 am
Joseph D. L. wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:07 am

Klewis, a major flaw in your analysis, at least in my eyes, is that you reject any real world need for Revelation and that it is only comparative to inner textual sources and not external historical events. Why, under your hypothesis, which I'm not disagreeing with, was Revelation necessary? What was the motivation behind this text, or its source texts? [Ur-Revelation] Just like with Daniel, where historical events are masked under the guise of prophecy, the same principle applies to Revelation.

Xoroaster did an excellent series on Revelation and its use of historical events, and though I disagree with minor interpretations here and there, his explanation remains firm. Your textual analysis, while interesting, does not explain why Revelation needed to exist.
I don't disagree with the text being selected to depict a reality. Ezekiel, which is a book depicting the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem, which is what Revelation is depicting. However, much of the material that forms Revelation is derived from the source texts and may or may not be connected to the reality of the time the author is depicting. Sometimes, the text is altered ever so slightly, such as the four horsemen in Revelation 6:1-8 is derived from the four chariots in Zechariah 6:1-8. While other times, nothing was changed in the text itself.

I do place the writing of the book of Revelation in a historical framework. The timeline I set forth is that the book was published shortly after September 18, 96 CE and that John was predicting the end of the world in 105 CE. However, the bulk of my book is connected to the process in which he wrote it. The process is no different than how Genesis-Exodus, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Matthew, Luke-Acts, and numerous other works were written.
I naturally disavow all of this. Starting with Rev ch. 6, Xoroaster made a very convincing case for it being an eye witness account of the eclipse of 59 ad., with the four horsemen being the visible planets equating to Roman emperors, because during the eclipse, by sheer chance they were all viewable, and I have to kneel down to this because the case he made was just that strong. So that alone disproves that the authors and editors of this book were simply lifting from older material. They clearly had their own agendas at work.

Then you have this:

Talmud Gittin, 57 A-BRev 14:14-20
His head was brought to Hadrian, who asked: “Who killed him?” A Cuthite came forward and said: “I did.” Hadrian told him: “Go and bring his body.” He went and brought it, and they found a snake curled around his neck. Hadrian declared: “Had his G‑d not killed him, who would have been able to do so?” Eighty thousand Romans entered Betar and slaughtered the men, women and children until blood flowed from the doorways and sewers. Horses sank up until their nostrils, and the rivers of blood lifted up rocks weighing forty se’ah [approximately 700 lb.], and flowed into the sea, where its stain was noticeable for a distance of four mil [approximately 2.5 miles]. Hadrian had a large vineyard, eighteen mil [approximately 11.5 miles] by eighteen mil—the distance between Tiberias and Tzippori—and he surrounded it with a wall made from the bodies of those slain in Betar. He also ordered that they not be brought to burial. The sages taught: for seven years the gentiles harvested their vineyards without having to fertilize them, because of the blood of Israel. Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped. Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse's bridle, for 1,600 stadia.

And then the motivations become clear. Reusing textual descriptions isn't that hard, especially for a religion that views history as the language of God and the texts are meant to divine from it.

And as far as dating goes, I out right reject this. Revelation contains fragments of historical events, from as far back as the eclipse of 59 ad, to the out break of the Antonine plague. As far as I care, "96 ad" doesn't mean anything. Cerinthus and John the Elder were both active well within the second century. This date is just another example of just how made up Christian history is, and that people still tout it is an exercise in obstinance.

Also, I do agree that the Biblical writers loved to play with mathematics. The patriarchs (Abraham 175 years old = 5 x 5 x 7; Isaac 180 years old = 6 x 6 x 5, Jacob 147 year = 7 x 7 x 3, and Joseph 110 = (7 x 7) + (6 x 6) + (5 x 5)) The number 153 is a good example of triangular math https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/153_(number). However, the numbers in Revelation are for the most part derived from the source text then naturally. With that said, the 666 in Rev 13:18 and the numbers in Rev 17:9-14 are driven by the author's own ideas. I see the 666 as filler material placed at the bottom of a wax tablet. It could be germatria driven, or an indirect way John is communicating to the reader. The frustration is not knowing is it 616 or 666.
666/616 both mean the same thing, Nero, and if the two authors I linked to above are of any worth, then the 666/616 is invoking Hadrian as another Nero. The idea that Nero was even a convert to Judaism is all too conspicuous with how Hadrian tried to smooth over ties with the Jews in Palestine. After the Kito revolt Jews tried to set up their own currency, which Hadrian eventually put a stop to.

Honestly I think your own misunderstanding of Revelation as nothing but a copy/paste job is clouding your thinking on this.

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Re: The mystery of the mark of the Beast, 666/616, is solved and it proves I am right about Hadrian

Post by Ben C. Smith » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:12 pm

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:14 am
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:28 am
klewis wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:09 am
Perhaps the number 666 means the sixth seal, the sixth trumpet, and the sixth bowl and the author of Revelation didn't even think in the meaning of a number identifying the person.
The problem with this is that gematria was a common and accepted name game in antiquity across multiple cultures, including all cultures relevant to the inquiry at hand. To announce that the number of the beast can be calculated, and that it represents a man (Revelation 13.18), and then not to use some kind of gematria is much like announcing that we will be playing chess before revealing that the game is actually going to be a car race.
Would this kind of line-drawing even be applicable with gematria? Where the combined total number is to be thought of as individual numbers? Would not, then, the number be the added total, 18? Or the multiplied total, 216? I admit I am completely ignorant on gematria.
No, the total would not be 18. It would be 666. The letters of the name, once converted to numbers using the standard method, have to add to 666.

ETA:

Hebrew values: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_al ... of_letters.
Greek values: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alp ... s_numerals.
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Re: The mystery of the mark of the Beast, 666/616, is solved and it proves I am right about Hadrian

Post by Secret Alias » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:18 pm

is much like announcing that we will be playing chess before revealing that the game is actually going to be a car race.
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Re: The mystery of the mark of the Beast, 666/616, is solved and it proves I am right about Hadrian

Post by Joseph D. L. » Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:31 am

Ben C. Smith wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:12 pm
Joseph D. L. wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:14 am
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:28 am
klewis wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:09 am
Perhaps the number 666 means the sixth seal, the sixth trumpet, and the sixth bowl and the author of Revelation didn't even think in the meaning of a number identifying the person.
The problem with this is that gematria was a common and accepted name game in antiquity across multiple cultures, including all cultures relevant to the inquiry at hand. To announce that the number of the beast can be calculated, and that it represents a man (Revelation 13.18), and then not to use some kind of gematria is much like announcing that we will be playing chess before revealing that the game is actually going to be a car race.
Would this kind of line-drawing even be applicable with gematria? Where the combined total number is to be thought of as individual numbers? Would not, then, the number be the added total, 18? Or the multiplied total, 216? I admit I am completely ignorant on gematria.
No, the total would not be 18. It would be 666. The letters of the name, once converted to numbers using the standard method, have to add to 666.

ETA:

Hebrew values: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_al ... of_letters.
Greek values: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alp ... s_numerals.
Thanks Ben. Gematria confuses me. It's like astrology to me.

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