John, of Bilgah. Jesus, of Immer.

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Charles Wilson
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John, of Bilgah. Jesus, of Immer.

Post by Charles Wilson »

Another small data point became apparent a day or so ago. It's a background piece but it adds a little more to the understanding.

1. The Thesis is that many of the NT Stories came from 2 Passovers, the first in 4 BCE, where at least 3000 people died and a Duplicate Passover in 9 CE, There at least one Priest preparing for the 9 CE Passover, making one last Call to Glory to Purify the Temple and have God stand with the Priesthood to eliminate the Herodians and the Romans. These Stories have been dismembered and rewritten for a different end.

2. The Mishmarot Service Group "Immer" is on Duty at both of these Passovers. They live in Upper Galilee and journey to Jerusalem for their Service.

3. A week or so ago, I began looking at John. He appears to be from the Group "Bilgah" and Bilgah is not worthy to untie the thong of the sandal of He Who Follows. Why? Bilgah missed a rotation at Mishmarot (Or Miriam, of Bilgah, beat on the Altar with a sandal, screaming something like, "Wolves are at the gate" (Those Greeks, again...) "and this is how you defend us?")

Therefore, the Word Play, lost as usual, finds Bilgah on Duty the week before Passover and Immer ("Immer" <=> "Immar" <=> "LAMB") on Duty for both Passovers the following week.

4. IS THAT ALL THERE IS? NO!

Something else is important here. The Mishmarot Groups rotate in on the Sabbath. One other item: These 2 Passovers begin on the Sabbath as well.

5. Why is that important? I claim that the Stories of these 2 Passovers have been telescoped and collapsed into one Story. The Story is the Initiation of the Crucifixion Motif and there was no Crucifixion at the Passover of 4 BCE. In the Synoptics, the "Crucifixion" occurs ON PASSOVER. In John, the Crucifixion occurs on the DAY OF PREPARATION, the day before Passover. Do I need to review this Material through the Centuries?

Here is the resolution of this Problem:

6: If both Passover weeks begin on Saturday, the "Symbolic Crucifixion" of the Synoptics occurs at the appropriate level of Symbolism: The Passover Slaughter occurs on the Watch of Immer, the Lamb.
The Crucifixion of John OCCURS ON THE DAY OF PREPARATION, however, and this is the last day of Bilgah's Service! The Priest who will be conducting the Coup on this Passover has been intercepted and murdered.

7. Bilgah is there for a reason. The Priest of Immer dies before the Week of Immer's Service.

CW
ghost
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Re: John, of Bilgah. Jesus, of Immer.

Post by ghost »

Charles Wilson wrote:6: If both Passover weeks begin on Saturday, the "Symbolic Crucifixion" of the Synoptics occurs at the appropriate level of Symbolism: The Passover Slaughter occurs on the Watch of Immer, the Lamb.
What would be interesting to see is how this was combined with the Caesar crucifixion. "Lamb" could also refer to Octavian, who is Caesar's adoptive son and official heir.

By the way, if "immer" means "lamb", then what does "bilgah" mean? And if you translate "mishmarot" literally, what does it mean?
Charles Wilson
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Re: John, of Bilgah. Jesus, of Immer.

Post by Charles Wilson »

ghost-

1. "Immer" is the 16th Mishmarot Service Group. King David chooses 24 Groups to Perform Temple Service. See 1 Chronicles 24. Sixteen of the 24 Groups come from Eleazar, 8 from Ithamar. The Hasmonean Dynasty is said to come from Jehoiarib, the first Group of Eleazar, although Immer claims the Hasmoneans as well.

"Immar" means "Lamb". See: http://lovewins.us/bible/strongs/H563 . This version of "Strong's..." does not use Hebrew Diacriticals and if you toggle to the Strong's H564 via the button at the top of the entry, you will get to "Immer". Notice that the words are the same. This is what gives the written word play on "Lamb". If you are a rabid Greekie, you miss the word play completely: "Lamb of God..." is..."Well...What else could it mean? Who else could it refer to?"

Uh, Oh!

2. Time to Plug PhilosopherJay's book again! Evolution of Christs and Christianities, p. 159:

" Now the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread were only two days away, and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some sly way to arrest Jesus and kill him. "But not during the Feasts", they said, "or the people may riot".

"The writer of this text is aware of the story of Jesus dying on Passover. He is also aware of an objection to the story that the people would have rioted if Jesus was killed on Passover. The writer is explaining why Jesus died on the preparation day and not Passover. However, the writer of these lines cannot be Mark. Mark tell us the contrary - that Jesus does die on Passover Day....We know that Mark only copied it, because he, in fact, does have Jesus dying on Passover, but does not show any riot by the people..."

This shows (in my view...) that Mark is aware that the 2 Passovers are to be telescoped. The first of the Passovers in question, 4 BCE, DID have a riot but it was a Coup Attempt by the Priesthood and 3000 died, supposedly at the hands of Archelaus and his soldiers. There was no time traveling savior-god. No Crucifixion. Notice the "Sound" of the Chief Priests in the Markan quote. It "sounds" like John. I believe that Jay is correct. Mark and John are copying from a common source. The Passover of 4 BCE was probably given in a record by Nicholas of Damascus and cc'ed to Josephus. The Crucifixion in front of the Passover of 9 CE occurs on the Day of Preparation. John may have decided to make his "Jesus" as the Passover Lamb but the Symbolism was already there. It was staring everyone in the face.

3. This is why Bilgah's statements in John are important:

John1 : 19 - 21 (RSV):

[19] And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?"
[20] He confessed, he did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Christ."
[21] And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the prophet?" And he answered, "No."

This is probably not John, the Greatest Prophet. That John was probably killed at the 4 BCE Passover. This John is facing an interrogation and he confesses: "I am not the Christ". The One who was the "Lamb of God" - of Immer - is murdered on the Day of Preparation. On the last day of the Service Week of Bilgah.

This is a much deeper Story.

CW
ghost
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Re: John, of Bilgah. Jesus, of Immer.

Post by ghost »

Charles Wilson wrote:3. A week or so ago, I began looking at John. He appears to be from the Group "Bilgah" and Bilgah is not worthy to untie the thong of the sandal of He Who Follows. Why?
Do John 1:15, John 1:27 and John 13:4-6 match Plutarch Pompey 73.6-7?

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... ection%3D6
Now, when it was time for supper and the master of the ship had made such provision for them as he could, Favonius, seeing that Pompey, for lack of servants, was beginning to take off his own shoes, ran to him and took off his shoes for him, and helped him to anoint himself.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... ection%3D7
And from that time on he continued to give Pompey such ministry and service as slaves give their masters, even down to the washing of his feet and the preparation of his meals, so that any one who beheld the courtesy and the unfeigned simplicity of that service might have exclaimed:

Ah, yes! to generous souls how noble every task!

1

1 The verse is assigned to Euripides in Morals, p. 85a (Nauck, Trag. Graec. Frag.2, p. 671).
NETfree
John 1:15
John testified about him and shouted out, "This one was the one about whom I said, 'He who comes after me is greater than I am, because he existed before me.'"
John 1:27
who is coming after me. I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandal!"
John 13:4
he got up from the meal, removed his outer clothes, took a towel and tied it around himself.

John 13:5
He poured water into the washbasin and began to wash the disciples' feet and to dry them with the towel he had wrapped around himself.

John 13:6
Then he came to Simon Peter. Peter said to him, "Lord, are you going to wash my feet?"
ghost
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Re: John, of Bilgah. Jesus, of Immer.

Post by ghost »

Charles Wilson wrote:"Immar" means "Lamb". See: http://lovewins.us/bible/strongs/H563 . This version of "Strong's..." does not use Hebrew Diacriticals and if you toggle to the Strong's H564 via the button at the top of the entry, you will get to "Immer". Notice that the words are the same. This is what gives the written word play on "Lamb". If you are a rabid Greekie, you miss the word play completely: "Lamb of God..." is..."Well...What else could it mean? Who else could it refer to?"

Uh, Oh!
An Augustus capricorn

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/5297006668/
Roman coin - emperor Augustus & capricorn
Capricorn with cornucopia on his back and a globe between the legs
ghost
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Re: John, of Bilgah. Jesus, of Immer.

Post by ghost »

http://dorchesters.com/cistophoric-tetr ... s-capricor
Reproduction Cistophoric Tetradrachm of Augustus -Capricorn
Obverse: Bare head of Augustus, facing right. Text below IMP CAESAR.

Reverse: Capricorn right with head left, holding cornucopiae; laurel wreath around. Text below AVGVSTVS.

History: The production of cistophori (triple-denarii) from the mints of Provisional Asia was on an impressive scale during the early years of Augustus' reign, attesting to the rapid economic wealth in the area following the end of the civil wars. The capricorn represents Augustus' birth sign and appears frequently as a coin type during his reign. His birthday was September 23, which would have made him a Libra by modern reckoning. However it is clear that from an astronomical work dating from the early part of Tiberius' reign that the moon and not the sun was used as the basis for computations at that time. The moon was in Capricorn at the time of Augustus' birth.

Date: Struck Ephesus mint, 25 - 20 BC

Diameter: 2.4cm
ghost
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Re: John, of Bilgah. Jesus, of Immer.

Post by ghost »

http://www.romanemperors.com/images/aug ... ricorn.jpg
http://www.romanemperors.com/images/aug ... corn-9.jpg

http://www.romanemperors.com/augustus.htm
5. Augustus Coin with Capricorn

Augustus Imperial Silver Denarius with Capricorn his birth sign holding globe between front hooves. It was struck in 12 BC, minted in Lugdunum (Lyon).
ghost
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Re: John, of Bilgah. Jesus, of Immer.

Post by ghost »

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/moneta ... rande.html

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/moneta ... /a640.html
Augusto, il capricorno e i segni del potere
D. Augusto 3 , testa nuda a sinistra. Bordo perlinato.
R. AVGVSTVS in basso. Capricorno a destra sorregge un globo attaccato ad un timone, cornucopia al di sopra del dorso 4 . Bordo lineare.
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