Page 1 of 6

Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:24 am
by Secret Alias
https://www.thedailybeast.com/everyones ... w-research
Instead, Mendez told me, “the Gospel of John, and the letters of 1 2, and 3 John are a chain of ancient literary forgeries.” Forgeries like this were, as Bart Ehrman showed in his Forgery and Counterforgery, very common among early Christians. Two second-century early Christian texts—the Gospel of Thomas and Gospel of Peter—claim to have been written by disciples of Jesus but were actually written by others.

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:18 am
by Ken Olson
Hugo Mendez, "Did the Johannine Community Exist?", JSNT 42.3 2020:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 4X19890490

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:08 am
by Joseph D. L.
This really calls into question the legitimacy of these academics. Why is one thing a "forgery", another "pseudepigraphal" and still another "spurious"? These people labour under the delusion that there is such a thing as authentic Gospel, authentic Christianity, and authentic Jesus. That is why they will never move beyond ludicrous ideas like Q, M, L, Markan priority, and a Jesus during Tiberius. It's all bs.

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:18 am
by Joseph D. L.
I suspect this hostility towards John and the Johannine Community is because it disproves their ideas about Mark which they are desperate to make work.

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:23 am
by Secret Alias
The implication is clearly again - Irenaeus is a liar.

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:25 am
by perseusomega9
Think we can time the letters to Trobisch's First Edition yet?

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:38 am
by Charles Wilson
Secret Alias wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:23 am The implication is clearly again - Irenaeus is a liar.
People can be so disappointing...

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:18 pm
by Bernard Muller
The gospel and the 3 epistles attributed to John are obviously not from either John the fisherman or John the elder (who I take as the author of Revelation). Very few on this board would think otherwise.
For the ones interested, I made a long study on the 4th gospel, with comments on the author (who is also the one I deducted wrote 1 John).
I wrote about that at http://historical-jesus.info/jnintro.html
You can directly go where I discussed authorship here: http://historical-jesus.info/jnorig.html#author
I also touched up on the Johannine community's issue in the authorship passage.

Cordially, Bernard

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:55 pm
by Joseph D. L.
Secret Alias wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:23 am The implication is clearly again - Irenaeus is a liar.
I'm just fed up with these academics treating Christianity as if it's anything but a scam.

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:24 pm
by Peter Kirby
Joseph D. L. wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:55 pm I'm just fed up with these academics treating Christianity as if it's anything but a scam.
Maybe someone should define the terms and present the case. It would at least be interesting to read.