Why 3 crucified

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Giuseppe
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Why 3 crucified

Post by Giuseppe » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:18 pm


ἣν οὐδεὶς τῶν ἀρχόντων Tοῦ αἰῶνος TούTου ἔγνωκεν, εἰ γὰρ ἔγνωσαν, οὐκ ἂν τὸν κύριον τῆς δόξης ἐσταύρωσαν

(1 Cor 2:8)

The T is symbol of the cross.

The Archons crucified 3 kind of souls:
  • pneumatics (Christ)
  • psychics (the Good Thief)
  • hylics (the Evil Thief)
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why 3 crucified

Post by Joseph D. L. » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:35 am


“A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established."


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Giuseppe
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Re: Why 3 crucified

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:00 am

As usual, I have a better evidence than your:

and then seat two scoundrels across from him who will accuse him of cursing God and the king. Then take him out and stone him to death.”

(1 kings 21:10)
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why 3 crucified

Post by Joseph D. L. » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:05 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:00 am
As usual, I have a better evidence than your:

and then seat two scoundrels across from him who will accuse him of cursing God and the king. Then take him out and stone him to death.”

(1 kings 21:10)
So you just proved that I'm right and you and your interpretation are wrong.

:thumbup:

Anyway, the Two Witnesses requirement is even confirmed in John 5:

I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. If I alone bear witness about myself, my testimony is not true. There is another who bears witness about me, and I know that the testimony that he bears about me is true. You sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. He was a burning and shining lamp, and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light. But the testimony that I have is greater than that of John.

And Gospel of Nicodemus:

And we saw two witnesses, whose bodies Jesus raised from the dead, who told us of many strange things which Jesus did among the dead, of which we have a written account in our hands.

The two crucified with Jesus bear witness to his death; the two angles in Luke/Marcion, bear witness to his resurrection.

But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they went in they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel. And as they were frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, “Why do you seek the living among the dead? He is not here, but has risen. Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee, that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men and be crucified and on the third day rise.”

Yet again pragmatism wins out over idealism.

Cheers! :cheers:

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Giuseppe
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Re: Why 3 crucified

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:12 am

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:05 am

And Gospel of Nicodemus:

And we saw two witnesses, whose bodies Jesus raised from the dead, who told us of many strange things which Jesus did among the dead, of which we have a written account in our hands.

The two crucified with Jesus bear witness to his death;
thanks for that. I wonder if the need of two witnesses (behind the introduction of two crucified thieves, about which we agree both, it seems) served to prove that Jesus died really and not only apparently, since, as you say, they "bear witness to his death".

Hence, who introduced the 2 idiots, was a Judaizer in polemic against Docetists.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why 3 crucified

Post by Joseph D. L. » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:44 am

thanks for that. I wonder if the need of two witnesses (behind the introduction of two crucified thieves, about which we agree both, it seems) served to prove that Jesus died really and not only apparently, since, as you say, they "bear witness to his death".
It's doubtful if it's supposed to be literal. After all, the two crucified with Jesus are still dead. So it's probably symbolic.

And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said,
Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit:
and having said this, he expired.

///

50 And, behold, a man named Joseph, who was a counsellor,
a good man, and a righteous
51 ( he had not consented to their counsel and deed;)
[a man] of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews:
who also himself was looking for the kingdom of God:
52 This man went unto Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus.
53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in a linen cloth,
and laid it in a tomb that was hewn in stone,
wherein no man had ever yet lain.

Hence, who introduced the 2 idiots, was a Judaizer in polemic against Docetists.
Why are they idiots?

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Giuseppe
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Re: Why 3 crucified

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:52 am

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:44 am
It's doubtful if it's supposed to be literal. After all, the two crucified with Jesus are still dead. So it's probably symbolic.
it is clearly supposed to be literal. The Judaizers had need of a Jesus "in the flesh". Only so he could be identified with the Jewish Christ. Again, very thanks for the great finding above.

Why are they idiots?
it is called irony. I enjoy to insult the Gospel characters as "idiots" when I have occasion to do so. :D :D :D :D
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Martin Klatt
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Re: Why 3 crucified

Post by Martin Klatt » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:12 am

Last edited by Martin Klatt on Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
What I have written, I have written........., but it ain't necessarily so.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why 3 crucified

Post by Joseph D. L. » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:20 am

Martin Klatt wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:12 am
Hmm, let's apply logic here. If it is of importance how many witnesses there are to the death of Jesus, we have a problem. There is only one witness we hear of and that is the centurion. If in your logic there is a two witnesses requirement, than following that same logic one witness is no witness, therefore Jesus did not die.
???



He's still dead. After all, there was a huge crowd watching him die. The two crucified with him are there to exemplify the requirement of two witnesses, and is probably directly derived from Revelation 11, where the two witnesses die on behalf of their Lord.

Martin Klatt
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Re: Why 3 crucified

Post by Martin Klatt » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:26 am

Last edited by Martin Klatt on Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
What I have written, I have written........., but it ain't necessarily so.

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