Why 3 crucified

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why 3 crucified

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Giuseppe wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:51 am
Joseph D.L. can you give the precise link/reference to GNicodemus for you quote above I like a lot? Thanks in advance.
sacred-texts.com/bib/lbob/lbob10.htm

Chapter 22.

AFTER these things Pilate went to the temple of the Jews, and called together all the rulers and scribes, and doctors of the law, and went with them into a chapel of the temple.

2 And commanding that all the gates should be shut, said to them, I have heard that ye have a certain large book in this temple; I desire you therefore, that it may be brought before me.

3 And when the great book, carried by four ministers of the temple, and adorned with gold and precious stones, was brought, Pilate said to them all, I adjure you by the God of your Fathers, who made and commanded this temple to be built, that ye conceal not the truth from me.

4 Ye know all the things which are written in that book; tell me therefore now, if ye in the Scriptures have found any thing of that Jesus whom ye crucified, and at what time of the world he ought to have come: shew it me.

5 Then having sworn Annas and Caiaphas, they commanded all the rest who were with them to go out of the chapel.

6 And they shut the gates of the temple and of the chapel, and said to Pilate, Thou hast made us to swear, O judge, by the building of this temple, to declare to thee that which is true and right.

7 After we had crucified Jesus, not knowing that he was the Son of God, but supposing he wrought his miracles by some magical arts, we summoned a large assembly in this temple.

8 And when we were deliberating among one another about

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the miracles which Jesus had wrought, we found many witnesses of our own country, who declared that they had seen him alive after his death, and that they heard him discoursing with his disciples, and saw him ascending unto the height of the heavens, and entering into them;

9 And we saw two witnesses, whose bodies Jesus raised from the dead, who told us of many strange things which Jesus did among the dead, of which we have a written account in our hands.

10 And it is our custom annually to open this holy book before an assembly, and to search there for the counsel of God.

11 And we found in the first of the seventy books, where Michael the archangel is speaking to the third son of Adam the first man, an account that after five thousand five hundred years, Christ the most beloved Son of God was come on earth,

12 And we further considered, that perhaps he was the very God of Israel who spoke to Moses, Thou shalt make the ark of the testimony; two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof. 1

13 By these five cubits and a half for the building of the ark of the Old Testament, we perceived and knew that in five thousand years and a half (one thousand) years, Jesus Christ was to come in the ark or tabernacle of a body;

14 And so our scriptures testify that he is the son of God, and the Lord and King of Israel.

15 And because after his suffering, our chief priests were surprised at the signs which were wrought by his means, we opened that book to search all the generations down to the generation of Joseph and Mary the mother of Jesus, supposing him to be of the seed of David;

16 And we found the account of the creation, and at what time he made the heaven and the earth and the first man Adam, and that from thence to the flood, were two thousand, two hundred and twelve years.

17 And from the flood to Abraham, nine hundred and twelve. And from Abraham to Moses, four hundred and thirty. And from Moses to David the king, five hundred and ten.

18 And from David to the Babylonish captivity, five hundred years. And from the Babylonish captivity to the incarnation of Christ, four hundred years.

19 The sum of all which amounts to five thousand and half (a thousand).

20 And so it appears, that Jesus whom we crucified, is Jesus Christ the Son of God, and true and Almighty God. Amen.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why 3 crucified

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That's weird. The link doesn't go directly to the site.

But just google Gospel of Nicodemus and go to the sacred-texts page.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why 3 crucified

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rakovsky wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:51 am "Why Three Crucified?"
A reference to the Trinity.
There are alot of Threesome references in the Bible, like three angels visiting Abraham as God visiting him, or like the three magi visiting Jesus as a baby in the manger. Or Isaiah's "Holy Holy Holy" praise for God. Or the three days in the tomb. Or Jonah's three days in the whale. Or Esther's three days of prayer. The theologians' theory is that the threesome reference is related to God being in a Trinity.

For ancient Canaan, you had Yahweh, Asherah, and their son Baal. The Christian authors of the NT had Father (the Source), Son (Logos & Pantocrator), and Holy Spirit.
Christian-Gnostic writings sometimes emphasized threesomeness as well. I imagine that the Jewish writer Philo also had the Father, Logos, and Holy Spirit concept.
I can dig this.

My theory for the two thieves is that it represents the reconciliation of two or more theologies.

In John or Ur-John the two thieves are just there. They don't say or do anything. So I think here they represent the statute for witnesses.

For the Synoptics, that's when things get out of hand. Luke/Marcion has one thief deny Jesus and the other asks to be saved; Gospel of Peter is a little shaky on that--one thief mocks Jesus while the other defends him, but it's not clear if he's saved or not; and in Mark and Matthew they both deny Jesus.

So at a certain point we get to a practice in Orthodoxy of reconciliation and duplication, or the "Twin Christs" theory as I call it (starting right now... ) Acts 13:4-12 is basically the magician giving away his secrets:

So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus. When they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. And they had John to assist them. When they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they came upon a certain magician, a Jewish false prophet named Bar-Jesus. He was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence, who summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. But Elymas the magician (for that is the meaning of his name) opposed them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. But Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said, “You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord? And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you will be blind and unable to see the sun for a time.” Immediately mist and darkness fell upon him, and he went about seeking people to lead him by the hand. Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had occurred, for he was astonished at the teaching of the Lord.

I mean, has nobody ever realized this before? I don't keep up with the academic community, but I can't be the only who sees what's going one here. This is just a recreation of Saul's conversion from chapter 9. An attempt to reconcile two different traditions into one. Hell, Saul is only called Paul after Sergius Paulus is introduced, and the false prophet is even named Jesus for cryin out loud.

And this happens in the Gospels as well, with the emphasis of Simon and his brother Andrew, and James with his brother John; Judas Iscariot, and Thomas Judas Didymus, which just means Judas, Twin of the Twin, and Thomas was believed to be the twin of Jesus; while pseudo-Ignatius writes that James was the twin of Jesus. All this is is reconciling different traditions.

And that's what I think the two thieves in the Synoptics represent as well.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Why 3 crucified

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Giuseppe wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:00 am Too generic.

The two thieves are there because their midrashical source reveals that their function is to witness the crucifixion of Jesus.

And their function is to witness the crucifixion of Jesus for the same reason of Ignatius:

Stop your ears, therefore, when any one speaks to you at variance with Jesus Christ, who was descended from David, and was also of Mary; who was truly born, and ate and drank. He was truly persecuted under Pontius Pilate; He was truly crucified, and [truly] died, in the sight of beings in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0106.htm

I.e. against Docetists who denied that Jesus was really crucified.
In Mcn there is no trace of the two crucified thieves. This is an indirect confirmation of their function.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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