Vain Genealogies

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Charles Wilson
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Vain Genealogies

Post by Charles Wilson »

Secret Alias wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:16 am So let's compile the list of sections of AH 1 which do not appear in AV in order.
1. INASMUCH(1) as certain men have set the truth aside, and bring in lying words and vain genealogies...
I want to list a few quotes for an Overview of the Genealogy Question, esp. in regards to Matthew. I continue to see Key Words, Word Plays and other Phrases that point to Methods of constructing the NT. This one may be too thin - or - it might give a Clue as to how Those-Who-Knew reacted to Rivalries among the NT Team-Members.

First, Matthew 1: 1 - 16 (RSV):

[1] The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
[2] Abraham was the father of Isaac, and Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
[3] and Judah the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, and Perez the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Ram,
[4] and Ram the father of Ammin'adab, and Ammin'adab the father of Nahshon, and Nahshon the father of Salmon,
[5] and Salmon the father of Bo'az by Rahab, and Bo'az the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse,
[6] and Jesse the father of David the king.
And David was the father of Solomon by the wife of Uri'ah,
[7] and Solomon the father of Rehobo'am, and Rehobo'am the father of Abi'jah, and Abi'jah the father of Asa,
[8] and Asa the father of Jehosh'aphat, and Jehosh'aphat the father of Joram, and Joram the father of Uzzi'ah,
[9] and Uzzi'ah the father of Jotham, and Jotham the father of Ahaz, and Ahaz the father of Hezeki'ah,
[10] and Hezeki'ah the father of Manas'seh, and Manas'seh the father of Amos, and Amos the father of Josi'ah,

[11] and Josi'ah the father of Jechoniah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon.
[12] And after the deportation to Babylon: Jechoni'ah was the father of She-al'ti-el, and She-al'ti-el the father of Zerub'babel,

[13] and Zerub'babel the father of Abi'ud, and Abi'ud the father of Eli'akim, and Eli'akim the father of Azor,
[14] and Azor the father of Zadok, and Zadok the father of Achim, and Achim the father of Eli'ud,
[15] and Eli'ud the father of Elea'zar, and Elea'zar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob,
[16] and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.

Look for a moment at the statements in verses 11 and 12 in this Book of the Genealogy of Jesus Christ (!). That this has been breathed on is found in the literature, esp. as to the number of groups, etc.. Verses 11 and 12 get barely a look since it is descriptive in nature. There is an internal tension between the 2 verses: Were there 2 (or more) Jechoniahs? Was there no History of the Lines during the Deportation? Here is a "Your Mileage May Vary" Moment. I see many Herod stories in the NT and I see this as another one.

So, notice the following in Josephus:

Josephus, Antiquities..., 14, 1, 3:

"But there was a certain friend of Hyrcanus, an Idumean, called Antipater, who was very rich, and in his nature an active and a seditious man; who was at enmity with Aristobulus, and had differences with him on account of his good-will to Hyrcanus. It is true that Nicolatls (sic) of Damascus says, that Antipater was of the stock of the principal Jews who came out of Babylon into Judea; but that assertion of his was to gratify Herod, who was his son, and who, by certain revolutions of fortune, came afterward to be king of the Jews, whose history we shall give you in its proper place hereafter..."

Here is that name again: Nicolaus of Damascus. His fingerprints are all over the NT. Josephus has a Debt to ol' Nick. Nick's brother carries Herod's Seal and if you don't think that matters in the last weeks of Herod's life then I suggest you begin figuring out how important Nic-O-Dm-(sc)-us really is.

Nick makes "Assertions" that Antipater was of the stock of the Principal Jews who came out of Babylon into Judea.

This is another Herod story:

"...that assertion of his was to gratify Herod..."

Now reread the opening quote:
1. INASMUCH as certain men have set the truth aside, and bring in lying words and vain genealogies...
"Certain Men" is a Sturdy Reusable that tells us that the author knows the "Certain Men" but will not name them.
Perhaps more importantly, note the plural "Genealogies". I see the first section of Matthew as another example of the Advantage of Theft Over Honest Toil.

What is the other member of the "Vain Genealogies" Set? I haven't been able to play "Match-'em-Up" with the Lukan Genealogy but this clue about "Genealogies" might lead one to believe that there is a List of People who might be "Chosen". Caesars perhaps?

This might be throwing three cards and getting a Royal Flush in return but considering what is passing for Knowledge today, it might just work.

CW
Last edited by Charles Wilson on Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nasruddin
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Re: Vain Genealogies

Post by Nasruddin »

The words of Irenaeus are reflecting those he would have read in the epistles attributed to Paul;

1 Timothy 1:4
command certain ones not to be teaching different doctrines, nor paying attention to myths and endless genealogies,

Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies
Charles Wilson
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Re: Vain Genealogies

Post by Charles Wilson »

Thank you, Nasruddin. That helps.
I am currently looking at Jeconiah in Matthew and an unexpected indirect note about Ezra in Luke.

More later.

CW
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DCHindley
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Re: Vain Genealogies

Post by DCHindley »

Charles Wilson wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:37 am Thank you, Nasruddin. That helps.
I am currently looking at Jeconiah in Matthew and an unexpected indirect note about Ezra in Luke.
You mean good ol' She-al'ti-el the father of Zerub'babel?

(RSV Mat 1:2-16)
(BGT Mat 1:2-16)
(RSV Luk 3:23-38)
(BGT Luk 3:23-38)
1 38d God. θεοῦ.
2 38c Adam, Ἀδὰμ
3 38b Seth, Σὴθ
4 38a Enos, 38 Ἐνὼς
5 37e Cainan, Καϊνὰμ
6 37d Mahalaleel, Μαλελεὴλ
7 37c Jared, Ἰάρετ
8 37b Enoch, Ἑνὼχ
9 37a Methuselah, 37 Μαθουσαλὰ
10 36e Lamech, Λάμεχ
11 36d Noah, Νῶε
12 36c Shem, Σὴμ
13 36b Arphaxad, Ἀρφαξὰδ
14 36a Cainan, 36 Καϊνὰμ
15 35e Shelah, Σαλὰ
16 35d Eber, Ἔβερ
17 35c Peleg, Φάλεκ
18 35b Reu, Ῥαγαὺ
19 35a Serug, 35 Σεροὺχ
20 34e Nahor, Ναχὼρ
21 34d Terah, Θάρα
22 2a Abraham was the father of Isaac, 2 Ἀβραὰμ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰσαάκ, 34c Abraham, Ἀβραὰμ
23 2b and Isaac the father of Jacob, Ἰσαὰκ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰακώβ, 34b Isaac, Ἰσαὰκ
24 2c and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, Ἰακὼβ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰούδαν καὶ τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς αὐτοῦ, 34a Jacob, 34 Ἰακὼβ
25 3a and Judah the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, 3 Ἰούδας δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Φάρες καὶ τὸν Ζάρα ἐκ τῆς Θαμάρ, 33f Judah, Ἰούδα
26 3b and Perez the father of Hezron, Φάρες δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἑσρώμ, 33e Perez, Φάρες
27 3c and Hezron the father of Ram, Ἑσρὼμ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἀράμ, 33d Hezron, Ἑσρὼμ
28 33e Arni, Ἀρνὶ
29 33b Admin, Ἀδμὶν
30 4a and Ram the father of Amminadab, 4 Ἀρὰμ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἀμιναδάβ,
31 4b and Amminadab the father of Nahshon, Ἀμιναδὰβ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ναασσών, 33a Amminadab, 33 Ἀμιναδὰβ
32 4c and Nahshon the father of Salmon, Ναασσὼν δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Σαλμών, 32e Nahshon, Ναασσὼν
33 5a and Salmon the father of Boaz by Rahab, 5 Σαλμὼν δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Βόες ἐκ τῆς Ῥαχάβ, 32d Sala, Σαλὰ
34 5b and Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth, Βόες δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰωβὴδ ἐκ τῆς Ῥούθ, 32c Boaz, Βόος
35 5c and Obed the father of Jesse, Ἰωβὴδ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰεσσαί, 32b Obed, Ἰωβὴδ
36 6a and Jesse the father of David the king. 6 Ἰεσσαὶ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Δαυὶδ τὸν βασιλέα. 32a Jesse, 32 Ἰεσσαὶ
37 6b And David was the father of Solomon by the wife of Uriah, Δαυὶδ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Σολομῶνα ἐκ τῆς τοῦ Οὐρίου, 31e David, Δαυὶδ
38 7a and Solomon the father of Rehoboam, 7 Σολομὼν δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ῥοβοάμ,
39 7b and Rehoboam the father of Abijah, Ῥοβοὰμ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἀβιά,
40 7c and Abijah the father of Asa, Ἀβιὰ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἀσάφ,
41 8a and Asa the father of Jehoshaphat, 8 Ἀσὰφ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰωσαφάτ,
42 8b and Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, Ἰωσαφὰτ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰωράμ,
43 8c and Joram the father of Uzziah, Ἰωρὰμ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ὀζίαν,
44 9a and Uzziah the father of Jotham, 9 Ὀζίας δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰωαθάμ,
45 9b and Jotham the father of Ahaz, Ἰωαθὰμ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἀχάζ,
46 9c and Ahaz the father of Hezekiah, Ἀχὰζ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἑζεκίαν,
47 10a and Hezekiah the father of Manasseh, 10 Ἑζεκίας δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Μανασσῆ,
48 10b and Manasseh the father of Amos, Μανασσῆς δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἀμώς,
49 10c and Amos the father of Josiah, Ἀμὼς δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰωσίαν,
50 11a and Josiah the father of Jechoniah and his brothers 11 Ἰωσίας δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰεχονίαν καὶ τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς αὐτοῦ
51 12a Jechoniah was the father of Shealtiel, 12 Ἰεχονίας ἐγέννησεν τὸν Σαλαθιήλ,
52 31d Nathan, Ναθὰμ
53 31c Mattatha, Ματταθὰ
54 31b Menna, Μεννὰ
55 31a Melea, 31 Μελεὰ
56 30e Eliakim, Ἐλιακὶμ
57 30d Jonam, Ἰωνὰμ
58 30c Joseph, Ἰωσὴφ
59 30b Judah, Ἰούδα
60 30a Simeon, 30 Συμεὼν
61 29e Levi, Λευὶ
62 29d Matthat, Μαθθὰτ
63 29c Jorim, Ἰωρὶμ
64 29b Eliezer, Ἐλιέζερ
65 29a Joshua, 29 Ἰησοῦ
66 28e Er, Ἢρ
67 28d Elmadam, Ἐλμαδὰμ
68 28c Cosam, Κωσὰμ
69 28b Addi, Ἀδδὶ
70 28a Melchi, 28 Μελχὶ
71 27e Neri, Νηρὶ
72 12b and Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel, Σαλαθιὴλ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ζοροβαβέλ, 27d Shealtiel, Σαλαθιὴλ
73 13a and Zerubbabel the father of Abiud, 13 Ζοροβαβὲλ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἀβιούδ, 27c Zerubbabel, Ζοροβαβὲλ
74 13b and Abiud the father of Eliakim, Ἀβιοὺδ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἐλιακίμ,
75 13c and Eliakim the father of Azor, Ἐλιακὶμ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἀζώρ,
76 14a and Azor the father of Zadok, 14 Ἀζὼρ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Σαδώκ,
77 14b and Zadok the father of Achim, Σαδὼκ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἀχίμ,
78 14c and Achim the father of Eliud, Ἀχὶμ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἐλιούδ,
79 15a and Eliud the father of Eleazar, 15 Ἐλιοὺδ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἐλεάζαρ,
80 15b and Eleazar the father of Matthan, Ἐλεάζαρ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ματθάν,
81 27b Rhesa, Ῥησὰ
82 27a Joanan, 27 Ἰωανὰν
83 26 Joda, Ἰωδὰ
84 26 Josech, Ἰωσὴχ
85 26 Semein, Σεμεῒν
86 26 Mattathias, Ματταθίου
87 26a Maath, 26 Μάαθ
88 25 Naggai, Ναγγαὶ
89 25 Esli, Ἑσλὶ
90 25 Nahum, Ναοὺμ
91 25 Amos, Ἀμὼς
92 25a Mattathias, 25 Ματταθίου
93 24 Joseph, Ἰωσὴφ
94 24 Jannai, Ἰανναὶ
95 24 Melchi, Μελχὶ
96 24 Levi, Λευὶ
97 15c and Matthan the father of Jacob, Ματθὰν δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰακώβ, 24 Matthat, 24 Μαθθὰτ
98 16a and Jacob the father of Joseph 16 Ἰακὼβ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰωσὴφ 23c Heli, Ἠλὶ
99 16b '[Joseph] the husband of Mary, [Ἰωσὴφ] τὸν ἄνδρα Μαρίας, 23b Joseph, Ἰωσὴφ
100 16c '[Mary] who was mother of Jesus [Μαρίας,] ἐξ ἧς ἐγεννήθη Ἰησοῦς
101 16d 'Jesus, who is called Christ. Ἰησοῦς ὁ λεγόμενος χριστός. 23a Jesus Ἰησοῦς

Of course(tm), Joshua is supposed to have some sort of relation to the legendary figure Ezra.

EZRA 7:1-5
NEHEMIAH 11:10-11
1 CHRONICLES 6:3-15
Ezra? (as brother) * Jesus
Ezra? (as uncle) * Jehozadak
Seraiah Seraiah Seraiah
Azariah * Azariah
Hilkiah Hilkiah Hilkiah
Shallum Meshullam Shallum
Zadok Zadok Zadok
See below Meraioth See below
Ahitub Ahitub Ahitub
Amariah * Amariah
Azariah * Azariah
* * Johanan
* * Azariah (see above)
* * Ahimaaz
* * Zadok (see above)
* * Ahitub (see above)
* * Amariah (see above)
Meraioth * Meraioth
Zerahiah * Zerahiah
Uzzi * Uzzi
Bukki * Bukki
Abishua * Abishua
Phinehas * Phinehas
Eleazar * Eleazar
Aaron * Aaron

Charles Wilson
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Re: Vain Genealogies

Post by Charles Wilson »

Actually, my Fog-Bound Brain(r) is pretty much backed up with a number of problems that usually haunt me from Physics to Bridge to Option Football combined with various itches I can't reach with either hand.

Thank you DCH.

In this case, it's finding the solution to the Lukan Genealogy from the rather Pedestrian View that someone *possibly* after the Matthean Genealogy realized the the "Jeconiahn Problem" prevented "Jesus" from ever sitting on the Throne:

Jeremiah 22: 28 - 30 (RSV):

[28] Is this man Coni'ah a despised, broken pot,
a vessel no one cares for?
Why are he and his children hurled and cast
into a land which they do not know?
[29] O land, land, land,
hear the word of the LORD!
[30] Thus says the LORD:
"Write this man down as childless,
a man who shall not succeed in his days;
for none of his offspring shall succeed
in sitting on the throne of David,
and ruling again in Judah."

Assuming some Type of reasonable thought (for that period of Early Christian Thought), the solution would be to fabricate a Line through Mary providing an Alternate Route to the Throne of God. The implication with Irenaeus is that there were people who were aware of the Process of Document Accretion who were appalled at the idea that fabricating a Genealogy was required at all. It was icky enough to fabricate a New Religion of Faith and Hope on the backs of those filthy Jews - suitably cleansed by Rome of course. However, God was to have transferred his Benevolence to Rome and the Flavians. Why this Genealogy stuff?

I've not been able to crack Luke's Genealogy through the years though not for lack of trying. A few days ago, I even suggested the Caesars though that appears to be a dead end.

Then, yesterday, I ran across some Apologetix(r) that had an interesting reference:

Ezra 3:2 (RSV):

[2] Then arose Jeshua the son of Jo'zadak, with his fellow priests, and Zerub'babel the son of She-al'ti-el with his kinsmen, and they built the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings upon it, as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God.
D C Hindley wrote:You mean good ol' She-al'ti-el the father of Zerub'babel?
Well, yeah...Maybe...I think so...
Why is this important?

Ezra 6: 9 (NIV), 17 (NIV), Chapter 7: 17 (RSV):

[9] Whatever is needed--young bulls, rams, male lambs for burnt offerings to the God of heaven, and wheat, salt, wine and olive oil, as requested by the priests in Jerusalem--must be given them daily without fail
***
[17] For the dedication of this house of God they offered a hundred bulls, two hundred rams, four hundred male lambs and, as a sin offering for all Israel, twelve male goats, one for each of the tribes of Israel.
***
[17] With this money, then, you shall with all diligence buy bulls, rams, and lambs, with their cereal offerings and their drink offerings, and you shall offer them upon the altar of the house of your God which is in Jerusalem.

These verses use the Hebrew " אמּר " which is "Lamb". It is the same word (without diacriticals, a later invention) as "Immer", the 16th Mishmarot Service Group. I began this Thread with a word of caution. This may all be a stretch. However, there are pointers a'plenty here that someone is adding to the Genealogies material that carries a hidden meaning.

Irenaeus is pushing Pauline Doctrine concerning Faith as being sufficient. "Faith without Works", however, is dead. Is there then no need for "Vain Genealogies"? There is a Political War going on with this material.

John 1: 35 - 36 (RSV):

[35] The next day again John was standing with two of his disciples;
[36] and he looked at Jesus as he walked, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God!"

Exactly.

CW
Last edited by Charles Wilson on Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DCHindley
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Re: Vain Genealogies

Post by DCHindley »

Charles Wilson wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:14 pm In this case, it's finding the solution to the Lukan Genealogy from the rather Pedestrian View that someone *possibly* after the Matthean Genealogy realized the the "Jechoniahn Problem" prevented "Jesus" from ever sitting on the Throne:

Jeremiah 22: 28 - 30 (RSV):

[28] Is this man Coni'ah a despised, broken pot,
a vessel no one cares for?
Why are he and his children hurled and cast
into a land which they do not know?
[29] O land, land, land,
hear the word of the LORD!
[30] Thus says the LORD:
"Write this man down as childless,
a man who shall not succeed in his days;
for none of his offspring shall succeed
in sitting on the throne of David,
and ruling again in Judah."
Assuming some Type of reasonable thought (for that period of Early Christian Thought), the solution [that would allow a Davidic descendant through Jechoniah to assume the throne again] would be to fabricate a Line through Mary providing an Alternate Route to the Throne of God.

The implication with Irenaeus is that there were people who were aware of the Process of Document Accretion who were appalled at the idea that fabricating a Genealogy was required at all. It was icky enough to fabricate a New Religion of Faith and Hope on the backs of those filthy Jews - suitably cleansed by Rome of course. However, God was to have transferred his Benevolence to Rome and the Flavians. Why this Genealogy stuff?

I've not been able to crack Luke's Genealogy through the years though not for lack of trying. A few days ago, I even suggested the Caesars though that appears to be a dead end.

Then, yesterday, I ran across some Apologetix(r) that had an interesting reference:

Ezra 3:2 (RSV):

[2] Then arose Jeshua the son of Jo'zadak, with his fellow priests, and Zerub'babel the son of She-al'ti-el with his kinsmen, and they built the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings upon it, as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God.
Well I sure missed the mark then.
D C Hindley wrote:You mean good ol' She-al'ti-el the father of Zerub'babel?
Well, yeah...Maybe...I think so...
Why is this important?
I did not see where your Ezra solution was to be found, so I naturally thought of something along the lines of the Latin Apocalypse of Ezra (2 Esdras 3.1), which conflates both genealogical lines:
KJV wrote:1. In the thirtieth year after the destruction of the city, I was in Babylon—I, Salathiel, who am also called Ezra. I was troubled as I lay on my bed, and my thoughts welled up in my heart ...
I am not aware of any scholarly scuttlebutt that suggests that the Royal ruler was related to the High Priest.

From what I (mis)understand, Rabbinic Judaism had rules in place that would make that impossible. Maybe they were not yet in place at that time (probably 520-515 BCE, starting in the 2nd year of Darius I). It was adopted later and in the popular imagination projected back to that era.
CW wrote:Ezra 6: 9 (NIV), 17 (NIV), Chapter 7: 17 (RSV):

[9] Whatever is needed--young bulls, rams, male lambs for burnt offerings to the God of heaven, and wheat, salt, wine and olive oil, as requested by the priests in Jerusalem--must be given them daily without fail
***
[17] For the dedication of this house of God they offered a hundred bulls, two hundred rams, four hundred male lambs and, as a sin offering for all Israel, twelve male goats, one for each of the tribes of Israel.
***
[17] With this money, then, you shall with all diligence buy bulls, rams, and lambs, with their cereal offerings and their drink offerings, and you shall offer them upon the altar of the house of your God which is in Jerusalem.

These verses use the Hebrew " אמּר " which is "Lamb". It is the same word (without diacriticals, a later invention) as "Immer", the 16th Mishmarot Service Group. I began this Thread with a word of caution. This may all be a stretch. However, there are pointers a'plenty here that someone is adding to the Genealogies material that carries a hidden meaning.

Irenaeus is pushing Pauline Doctrine concerning Faith as being sufficient. "Faith without Works", however, is dead. No need for [AH 1] "Vain Genealogies"?
Hmmm, I always took that to refer to the various Gnostic systems of emanations from the divine principals of the universe. Irenaeus went to great lengths to ridicule them as vain imaginations un-rooted in how the world actually function. After the end of the 1st Judaean rebellion, the gentile branch of the Jesus movement started to distance themselves from Judaeans. By Irenaeus' time the idea had taken root that the promises of an abundant land were withdrawn from the Judaeans and handed over to the gentile followers. The traditional rulership genealogies (Herodian, Davidian, Hasmonean, Zadokite) had petered out by the third or fourth decades of the 2nd century, especially after the failure of the Bar Kosiba rebellion. "Are we gonna let them gall-dang Gnostics swoop in and start that sorta stuff up ag'in?" The implied answer is "No!"
John 1: 35 - 36 (RSV):

[35] The next day again John was standing with two of his disciples;
[36] and he looked at Jesus as he walked, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God!"

Exactly.
Charles Wilson
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Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am

Re: Vain Genealogies

Post by Charles Wilson »

Assume for a moment that Nicolaus of Damascus' "Assertion" that Herod's father Antipater was of the stock that came through the Babylonian Captivity was found in a Document that became the genealogy of "Jesus" in Matthew 1.

Josephus, Antiquities..., 14, 1, 3:

"But there was a certain friend of Hyrcanus, an Idumean, called Antipater, who was very rich, and in his nature an active and a seditious man; who was at enmity with Aristobulus, and had differences with him on account of his good-will to Hyrcanus. It is true that Nicolatls of Damascus says, that Antipater was of the stock of the principal Jews who came out of Babylon into Judea; but that assertion of his was to gratify Herod, who was his son, and who, by certain revolutions of fortune, came afterward to be king of the Jews, whose history we shall give you in its proper place hereafter..."

This is peculiar.

A..., 14, 8, 1:

"NOW after Pompey was dead, and after that victory Caesar had gained over him, Antipater, who managed the Jewish affairs, became very useful to Caesar when he made war against Egypt
***
When Antipater had made this speech, Caesar appointed Hyrcauus to be high priest, and gave Antipater what principality he himself should choose, leaving the determination to himself; so he made him procurator of Judea
***
9, 1 and on:

NOW when Caesar had settled the affairs of Syria, he sailed away. And as soon as Antipater had conducted Caesar out of Syria, he returned to Judea. He then immediately raised up the wall which had been thrown down by Pompey; and, by coming thither, he pacified that tumult which had been in the country, and this by both threatening and advising them to be quiet; for that if they would be of Hyrcanus's side, they would live happily, and lead their lives without disturbance, and in the enjoyment of their own possessions; but if they were addicted to the hopes of what might come by innovation, and aimed to get wealth thereby, they should have him a severe master instead of a gentle governor, and Hyrcanus a tyrant instead of a king, and the Romans, together with Caesar, their bitter enemies instead of rulers, for that they would never bear him to be set aside whom they had appointed to govern. And when Antipater had said this to them, he himself settled the affairs of this country.
***
...so they came to Hyrcanus, and now accused Antipater openly, and said to him, "How long wilt thou be quiet under such actions as are now done? Or dost thou not see that Antipater and his sons have already seized upon the government, and that it is only the name of a king which is given thee?
***
When affairs stood thus, one whose name was Sameas, a righteous man he was, and for that reason above all fear, rose up, and said, "O you that are assessors with me, and O thou that art our king, I neither have ever myself known such a case, nor do I suppose that any one of you can name its parallel, that one who is called to take his trial by us ever stood in such a manner before us; but every one, whosoever he be, that comes to be tried by this Sanhedrim, presents himself in a submissive manner, and like one that is in fear of himself, and that endeavors to move us to compassion, with his hair dishevelled, and in a black and mourning garment: but this admirable man Herod, who is accused of murder, and called to answer so heavy an accusation, stands here clothed in purple, and with the hair of his head finely trimmed, and with his armed men about him, that if we shall condemn him by our law, he may slay us, and by overbearing justice may himself escape death. Yet do not I make this complaint against Herod himself; he is to be sure more concerned for himself than for the laws; but my complaint is against yourselves, and your king, who gave him a license so to do. However, take you notice, that God is great, and that this very man, whom you are going to absolve and dismiss, for the sake of Hyrcanus, will one day punish both you and your king himself also."

There is delicious Irony here. If this is indeed a phony genealogy intended to gratify Herod, Herod is more stupid than his reputation would imply. Antipater may have been a descendant of those who came through the Babylonian Captivity but if his line came through Jeconiah Herod would never be "King of Judah" [In the important Judaic sense]. Again, this gives meaning to Josephus, War..., 2, 1, 2:

"They cried out that a punishment ought to be inflicted for these men upon those that were honored by Herod; and that, in the first place, the man whom he had made high priest should be deprived; and that it was fit to choose a person of greater piety and purity than he was..."

Herod was not to be a Priestly King, entitled to High Priest honors nor Kingship. Herod made the High Priest an appointed position. At his death, the crowd demands that Archelaus appoint a High Priest of "greater Piety and Purity".

What does that mean?

Nicolaus of Damascus was a Political Control Officer for Rome, overseeing Herod's every move. He might have written a great deal of what we have in the NT. Zakkai had the knowledge to write the very hidden background. Matthew's genealogy is quite flawed. Was this flawed document seen for what it was? Evidently, as Luke's genealogy provides a solution to Matthean problems.

Someone oversaw Luke's genealogy as well. That person, in providing an alternate path to the Throne, may have known more than the Matthean Author.

CW
Last edited by Charles Wilson on Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:56 am, edited 4 times in total.
Charles Wilson
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Re: Vain Genealogies

Post by Charles Wilson »

DCHindley wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:28 pmHmmm, I always took that to refer to the various Gnostic systems of emanations from the divine principals of the universe. Irenaeus went to great lengths to ridicule them as vain imaginations un-rooted in how the world actually function. After the end of the 1st Judaean rebellion, the gentile branch of the Jesus movement started to distance themselves from Judaeans. By Irenaeus' time the idea had taken root that the promises of an abundant land were withdrawn from the Judaeans and handed over to the gentile followers. The traditional rulership genealogies (Herodian, Davidian, Hasmonean, Zadokite) had petered out by the third or fourth decades of the 2nd century, especially after the failure of the Bar Kosiba rebellion. "Are we gonna let them gall-dang Gnostics swoop in and start that sorta stuff up ag'in?" The implied answer is "No!"
You are no doubt correct and I defer to your superior knowledge.
I believe that there is a meaning that supports the "Grace Over Works" battle but I prolly went beyond the Data on this point.

Thank you, as always, DCH.
Charles Wilson
Posts: 2100
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am

Re: Vain Genealogies

Post by Charles Wilson »

My taste in books is getting much more expensive these days...

The Levitical Authorship of Ezra-Nehemiah:

https://books.google.com/books?id=RcB9X ... &q&f=false
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