Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Blood wrote:Is Jerusalem referred to as "the spiritual" Sodom and Egypt anywhere else? And why Sodom and Egypt?

It's fascinating that modern translations take "the Lord of them" to mean THEIR Lord was crucified. The Egyptians' Lord was crucified? Clearly, modern interpreters don't think "the spiritual Sodom and Egypt" can refer to Jerusalem; otherwise, they would have no problem translating it as OUR Lord.

I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery , and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers , that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

The implications of this simple textual examination are quite profound. First, it appears that one can fairly easily recover a pre-Christian version of this text, more or less, with very little change to the underlying text itself. What this would then allow is a re-reading of the book as a whole, with its references to the “Beast,” the “False Prophet,” and “Babylon” in a pre-70 CE setting. Scholars have most often applied the basic setting of the book to the reigns of the Roman emperors Nero and Domitian, with several stages of redaction in the period from 68 to 100 CE. However, since Rev 11:15 appears to be a clear reference to the city of Jerusalem, not Rome, as “Sodom and Egypt,” an entirely different line of interpretation opens up. The perspective of the authors of this primitive Ur-text of the Apocalypse is a radical disenfranchisement from the authority structures of pre-70 CE Roman destruction Jerusalem, whom they consider agents of the “Beast.” Further, the martyrs in this Ur-text are the “two witnesses,” whose slain bodies are left in the streets of Jerusalem, not Jesus the crucified messiah.

Bernard Muller wrote:Spiritual Sodom and Egypt most likely refers to Rome. And the Lord crucified is God himself, figuratively wounded because of the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem and the killing/enslavement of many Jews (by the Romans).
Rev 11:8 is part of an entirely Jewish apocalypse written soon after 70 CE, but composed earlier during Galba's short rule. That apocalypse was Christianized through additions (notably the seven letters) during Domitian's rule.
I got some scholarly support for that and I have a webpage explaining the whole thing:
http://historical-jesus.info/rjohn.html
Cordially, Bernard

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified .

Saying, Behold , we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles

I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery , and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers , that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

Bernard Muller wrote:At Rev 11:2, Jerusalem is referred as "the holy city", not "the great city".
Cordially, Bernard

Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.