Iesu Used as Nominative

[Secret Alias]

Since some of the participants are interested in the use of Isu in Ephrem's reporting on the Marcionites - and this is a separate discussion from the Hebrew ish - in itself it appears as a transliteration of the Hebrew Yeshua through Greek (back to Syriac). But it is interesting that at the fringes of the Empire - influenced by Latin - that Latin speakers were using Iesu as nominative in place of Iesus. Not sure why or what it means.

Originally in English this name occurred in the Old French objective form Iesu or Jesu.https://books.google.com/books?id=UxdVA ... AnoECAIQAg

[Joseph D. L.]

The link shows a small clip of the book, but I found another book that seems to be a direct copy of the passage linked to.

https://books.google.com/books?id=0TNOA ... 22&f=false

[Joseph D. L.]

I'm curious if HSU, or Eta Sigma Upsilon, with Eta Sigma being an nomina sacra for Helios, Eos, and Elijah/Elias, could have been a local variant in the northern Phyrgian dialect?

And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun [Ἥλιος], and his clothes became white as light. And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah [Hλίας], talking with him. And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified. But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Rise, and have no fear.” And when they lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.

[Joseph D. L.]

And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Elisha saw it and he cried, “My father, my father! The chariots of Israel and its horsemen!” And he saw him no more.

~2 Kings 2:11-12

And now, O Muse Calliope, daughter of Zeus, begin to sing of glowing Helios whom mild-eyed Euryphaessa, the far-shining one, bare to the Son of Earth and starry Heaven. For Hyperion wedded glorious Euryphaessa, his own sister, who bare him lovely children, rosy-armed Eos and rich-tressed Selene and tireless Helios who is like the deathless gods. As he rides in his chariot, he shines upon men and deathless gods, and piercingly he gazes with his eyes from his golden helmet. Bright rays beam dazzlingly from him, and his bright locks streaming from the temples of his head gracefully enclose his far-seen face: a rich, fine-spun garment glows upon his body and flutters in the wind: and stallions carry him. Then, when he has stayed his golden-yoked chariot and horses, he rests there upon the highest point of heaven, until he marvelously drives them down again through heaven to Ocean.

Hail to you, lord! Freely bestow on me substance that cheers the heart. And now that I have begun with you, I will celebrate the race of mortal men half-divine whose deeds the Muses have showed to mankind.

~Homeric Hymn to Helios

[Joseph D. L.]

https://books.google.com/books?id=QNm08 ... os&f=false





The sun god in his chariot, from two fourth century synagogues



Christ as Helios in his solar chariot, from the fourth century tomb of Julii

[Joseph D. L.]

I know I'm getting really off the topic of this thread, but I also find this interesting:

καὶ ηὐλόγησεν τὸν Αβραμ καὶ εἶπεν εὐλογημένος Αβραμ τῷ θεῷ τῷ ὑψίστῳ ὃς ἔκτισεν τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν

καὶ εὐλογητὸς ὁ θεὸς ὁ ὕψιστος ὃς παρέδωκεν τοὺς ἐχθρούς σου ὑποχειρίους σοι καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ δεκάτην ἀπὸ πάντων

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypsistarians

Ὑπερίων is Ὕψιστος are both linguistically tied, meaning the High One/Highest God, with Θεός ὁ ὕψιστος being the Greek for El Elyion. The Hypsistarians were also predominately organized in the Pontus region, Marcion's own stomping grounds, and included both Jews and gentiles alike. The earliest inscription known of this cult cult runs "Self-begotten, un-taught, un-mothered, undisturbed, not permitting a name, many-named, dwelling in fire." The last bit is all too reminiscent of Ignatius, Phlegon, Peregrinus, and Polycarp.

Similar to how Jesus contains the name of the Jewish Allfather, Jahovah, Helios was early on called Ἥλιος Ὑπερίων, Sun Most High, and Hyperionides, Son of the High One, while in the later Hymn to Helios, Julian called Hyperion the "First Principle," identifying him with logos. It's similar also to Paul's dictum in Philippians 2:9-10, with the name "above" every other name, Ἥςυ, who is the image of the invisible God. So the angel appearing in the burning bush, and in the pillars of smoke and fire, would easily be merged with the principle of Helios, the god of the Sun.

What's funny about all of this is that Lactantius recounts a tradition in which Apollo, who at the time was syncretized with Helios, was crucified:

On which account the Milesian Apollo, being asked whether He was God or man, replied in this manner: "He was mortal as to His body, being wise with wondrous works; but being taken with arms under Chaldean judges, with nails and the cross He endured a bitter end."

Lactantius elsewhere seems to apply sayings attributed to Apollo, to Christ, thus the confusing manner in which he [Lactantius] recounts the tradition of the Apollo of Miletus being crucified. Apollo Didymeus Milesios was the Oracle of Apollo. I could say Lactantius is being deliberately dishonest, but he also tried to argue the earth was flat, legit.

[Joseph D. L.]

Ἀναστὰς δὲ τὴν νύκτα ἐκείνην ἔλαβεν τὰς δύο γυναῖκας καὶ τὰς δύο παιδίσκας καὶ τὰ ἕνδεκα παιδία αὐτοῦ, καὶ διέβη τὴν διάβασιν τοῦ Ἰαβόκ. καὶ ἔλαβεν αὐτοὺς καὶ διέβη τὸν χειμάρρουν, καὶ διεβίβασεν πάντα τὰ αὐτοῦ.

ὑπελείφθη δὲ Ἰακὼβ μόνος, καὶ ἐπάλαιεν μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ ἄνθρωπος ἕως πρωί. ἴδεν δὲ ὅτι οὐ δύναται πρὸς αὐτόν, καὶ ἥψατο τοῦ πλάτους τοῦ μηροῦ αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐνάρκησεν τὸ πλάτος τοῦ μηροῦ Ἰακὼβ ἐν τῷ παλαίειν αὐτὸν μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ· καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ Ἀπόστειλόν με· ἀνέβη γὰρ ὁ ὄρθρος. ὁ δὲ εἶπεν Οὐ μή σε ἀποστείλω, ἐὰν μὴ εὐλογήσῃς με. εἶπεν δὲ αὐτῷ Τί τὸ ὄνομά σού ἐστιν; ὁ δὲ εἶπεν Ἰακώβ. καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ Οὐ κληθήσεται ἔτι τὸ ὄνομά σου Ἰακώβ, ἀλλὰ Ἰσραὴλ τὸ ὄνομά σου ἔσται· ὅτι ἐνίσχυσας μετὰ θεοῦ, καὶ μετὰ ἀνθρώπων δυνατός 29ἠρώτησεν δὲ Ἰακὼβ καὶ εἶπεν Ἀνάγγειλόν μοι τὸ ὄνομά σου. καὶ εἶπεν Ἵνα τί σὺ ἐρωτᾷς τὸ ὄνομά μου; καὶ ηὐλόγησεν αὐτὸν ἐκεῖ. καὶ ἐκάλεσεν Ἰακὼβ τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ τόπου ἐκείνου Εἶδος θεοῦ· ἴδον γὰρ θεὸν πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον, καὶ ἐσώθη μου ἡ ψυχή. ἀνέτειλεν δὲ αὐτῷ ὁ ἥλιος ἡνίκα παρῆλθεν τὸ Εἶδος τοῦ θεοῦ· αὐτὸς δὲ ἐπέσκαζεν τῷ μηρῷ αὐτοῦ. ἕνεκεν γὰρ τούτου οὐ μὴ φάγωσιν οἱ υἱοὶ Ἰσραὴλ τὸ νεῦρον ὃ ἐνάρκησεν, ὅ ἐστιν ἐπὶ τοῦ πλάτους τοῦ μηροῦ Ἰακώβ, ἕως τῆς ἡμέρας ταύτης· ὅτι ἥψατο τοῦ πλάτους τοῦ μηροῦ Ἰακὼβ τοῦ νεύρου, καὶ ἐνάρκησεν.



And he rose up in that night, and took his two wives and his two servant-maids, and his eleven children, and crossed over the ford of Jaboch. And he took them, and passed over the torrent, and brought over all his possessions.

And Jacob was left alone; and a man wrestled with him till the morning. And he saw that he prevailed not against him; and he touched the broad part of his thigh, and the broad part of Jacob's thigh was benumbed in his wrestling with him. And he said to him, Let me go, for the day has dawned; but he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. And he said to him, What is thy name? and he answered, Jacob. And he said to him, Thy name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name; for thou hast prevailed with God, and shalt be mighty with men. And Jacob asked and said, Tell me thy name; and he said, Wherefore dost thou ask after my name? and he blessed him there. And Jacob called the name of that place, the Face of God; for, said he,I have seen God face to face, and my life was preserved. And the sun rose upon him, when he passed the Face of God; and he halted upon his thigh. Therefore the children of Israel will by no means eat of the sinew which was benumbed, which is on the broad part of the thigh, until this day, because the angel touched the broad part of the thigh of Jacob— even the sinew which was benumbed.

As the day begins to dawn, the angel demands to be released; and Jacob calls the place Peniel, because he saw God, the angel, face to face, and as he leaves the sun shines down on him.

The angel, אִישׁ, ἄνθρωπος, Man, is personified in the text as the sun.

[Joseph D. L.]

The Septuagint might make this even more explicit.

Whereas the Hebrew reads "וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, נַעֲשֶׂה אָדָם בְּצַלְמֵנוּ כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ; וְיִרְדּוּ בִדְגַת הַיָּם וּבְעוֹף הַשָּׁמַיִם, וּבַבְּהֵמָה וּבְכָל-הָאָרֶץ, וּבְכָל-הָרֶמֶשׂ, הָרֹמֵשׂ עַל-הָאָרֶץ", using אדם as opposed to אִישׁ, the Greek keeps the distinction "καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεός Ποιήσωμεν ἄνθρωπον κατ᾽ εἰκόνα ἡμετέραν καὶ καθ᾽ ὁμοίωσιν· καὶ ἀρχέτωσαν τῶν ἰχθύων τῆς θαλάσσης καὶ τῶν πετεινῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καὶ τῶν κτηνῶν καὶ πάσης τῆς γῆς καὶ πάντων τῶν ἑρπετῶν τῶν ἑρπόντων ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς," using ἄνθρωπον for the translation אדם instead of Ἀδάμ. אִישׁ is used in chapter 2:22-23. The implication here is that the translators for the Septuagint recognized that the man/angel in chapter 32 was the same man as chapter 1.

[perseusomega9]

I know I'm getting really off the topic of this thread, but I also find this interesting:

καὶ ηὐλόγησεν τὸν Αβραμ καὶ εἶπεν εὐλογημένος Αβραμ τῷ θεῷ τῷ ὑψίστῳ ὃς ἔκτισεν τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν

καὶ εὐλογητὸς ὁ θεὸς ὁ ὕψιστος ὃς παρέδωκεν τοὺς ἐχθρούς σου ὑποχειρίους σοι καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ δεκάτην ἀπὸ πάντων

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypsistarians

Ὑπερίων is Ὕψιστος are both linguistically tied, meaning the High One/Highest God, with Θεός ὁ ὕψιστος being the Greek for El Elyion. The Hypsistarians were also predominately organized in the Pontus region, Marcion's own stomping grounds, and included both Jews and gentiles alike. The earliest inscription known of this cult cult runs "Self-begotten, un-taught, un-mothered, undisturbed, not permitting a name, many-named, dwelling in fire." The last bit is all too reminiscent of Ignatius, Phlegon, Peregrinus, and Polycarp.

Similar to how Jesus contains the name of the Jewish Allfather, Jahovah, Helios was early on called Ἥλιος Ὑπερίων, Sun Most High, and Hyperionides, Son of the High One, while in the later Hymn to Helios, Julian called Hyperion the "First Principle," identifying him with logos. It's similar also to Paul's dictum in Philippians 2:9-10, with the name "above" every other name, Ἥςυ, who is the image of the invisible God. So the angel appearing in the burning bush, and in the pillars of smoke and fire, would easily be merged with the principle of Helios, the god of the Sun.

What's funny about all of this is that Lactantius recounts a tradition in which Apollo, who at the time was syncretized with Helios, was crucified:

On which account the Milesian Apollo, being asked whether He was God or man, replied in this manner: "He was mortal as to His body, being wise with wondrous works; but being taken with arms under Chaldean judges, with nails and the cross He endured a bitter end."

Lactantius elsewhere seems to apply sayings attributed to Apollo, to Christ, thus the confusing manner in which he [Lactantius] recounts the tradition of the Apollo of Miletus being crucified. Apollo Didymeus Milesios was the Oracle of Apollo. I could say Lactantius is being deliberately dishonest, but he also tried to argue the earth was flat, legit.

Thanks, I learned something new today. So the hypsistarians were the hipsters of their day

[MrMacSon]

Christ as Helios in his solar chariot, from the fourth century tomb of Julii

That image from the tomb/ mausoleum of the Julii, discovered under Saint Peter’s Basilica (in the Vatican) in the 1940s, is said to be date 250-275 AD.

Some have tied it to [a] "Christ-the-True-Sun" proclaimed in many of the writings of Clement of Alexandria (ca. 150-215).

[Interestingly, the tomb also contains images of a fisherman (north wall), a shepherd (west wall), and of two figures in a boat with a third individual being swallowed by a sea creature (east wall).]

By Late Antiquity, Helios had accumulated a number of religious, mythological, and literary elements from other deities, particularly Apollo and the Roman sun god Sol. In 274 AD, on December 25th, the Roman Emperor Aurelian instituted an official state cult to Sol Invictus (or Helios Megistos, "Great Helios"). This new cult drew together imagery not only associated with Helios and Sol, but also a number of syncretic elements from other deities formerly recognized as distinct. Other syncretic materials from this period include an Orphic Hymn to Helios; the so-called Mithras Liturgy, where Helios is said to rule the elements; spells and incantations invoking Helios among the Greek Magical Papyri; a Hymn to Helios by Proclus; Julian's Oration to Helios, the last stand of official paganism; and an episode in Nonnus' Dionysiaca. Helios in these works is frequently equated not only with deities such as Mithras and Harpocrates, but even with [Jewish or Greek perceptions or representations of Jewish gods, such as Iao/ Ἰάω ].[28] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios#Late_antiquity

28. Eleni Pachoumi, The Religious and Philosophical Assimilations of Helios in the Greek Magical Papyri, Greek, Roman, and Byzantine Studies 55 (2015) 391–413, -

(3) Helios – praised, Iao
Helios/Harpocrates is “praised (εὐλόγητος) among all gods, angels, and daimons” (IV.998); this implies Jewish influence.¹² Helios is also assimilated to Ἰάω/ Iao (991), a name derived from the Hebrew god YHWH. Iao’s identification with Helios is mentioned in almost all the spells included in the collection 930– 1114,13 with one exception, the hymn “To Helios” (939–948).

https://grbs.library.duke.edu/article/v ... 15325/6623

[Previously]
The origins of the idea of the chariot of the Sun are Indo-European.4 The representation of Helios in his chariot is familiar in Greek literature5 and in Near Eastern religious texts as well.6

In the spell III.98–124, included in the spell III.1–164, “the greatest (µέγιστε) Mithras” is associated with Helios, addressed as “the holy king, the sailor, who controls the tiller of the great god” (100–103 and 81–82). This description must refer to the daily solar sea journey on the boat of the Egyptian sun god Re.

[Later]
Thus, in IV.985–1035 Helios is assimilated with deities from other religious systems, as for example the Egyptian Horus Harpocrates and the Jewish Iao. Helios’ description as “sitting on the lotus” and “holding the reins and steering the tiller and restraining the serpent” implies influences from Egyptian religion, although the latter phrase may also allude to Greek literature and to Zoroastrian religion.

Helios is also identified with “Sabaoth, Adonai, the great god” (1626), as we have seen in the spell 1596–1715. Similarly in the Jewish Hekhalot literature, which displays elements of early Jewish mysticism and magic, there are allusions to the mystical ascent to Hekhalot, “the heavenly places,” and to Merkabah, “the chariot,” of Elijah by which he ascended to Heaven. This, then, is the final element in the description of Helios as the one “to whom heaven has become the processional way.” But there is of course a difference of status: Elijah is a great prophet who ascends to Heaven. Helios is himself the great god, who has appropriated and extended a prophetic motif.

---

4 See P. Gelling and H. E. Davidson, The Chariot of the Sun and Other Rites and Symbols of the Northern Bronze Age (London 1969).
5 e.g. Hymn.Hom. 31.9; Eur. Med. 1321–1322; the myth of Phaethon, dramatized by Euripides (C. Collard, M. J. Cropp, and K. H. Lee, Euripides: Selected Fragmentary Plays I [Warminster 1995] 195–239); Hymn.Orph. 8.18–19 (G. Quandt, Orphei Hymni [Berlin 1955]).
6 W. Burkert, Greek Religion: Archaic and Classical (Cambridge [Mass.] 1985) 175.

12 12 εὐλόγητος: e.g. Gen 9:26, 12:2, 14:20, 24:27, 26:29; Deut 7:14; Od 7:26, 8.52, 9.68.
.