Luke and Annas the high priest

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JoeWallack
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Re: Luukee! Ya Got Sum Splainin Ta Do

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
Again, we have a default position that literally there is a contradiction between GLuke and GMatthew regarding who the High Priest was during Jesus' supposed passion:
  • GLuke = The high priesthood of Anna and Caiapha

    GMatthew = The high priest Caipha
The natural understanding is that, in the words of the god-awful Highlander trilogy, "There can be only one." (High Priest at a time).

From a Skeptical standpoint (the only one I use) the primary source for related history is Josephus:

Antiquities of the Jews - Book XVIII CHAPTER 2

Perseus
1. WHEN Cyrenius had now disposed of Archelaus's money, and when the taxings were come to a conclusion, which were made in the thirty-seventh year of Caesar's victory over Antony at Actium, he deprived Joazar of the high priesthood, which dignity had been conferred on him by the multitude, and he appointed Ananus, the son of Seth, to be high priest; while Herod and Philip had each of them received their own tetrarchy, and settled the affairs thereof.
Relevant information =
  • 1) "deprived Joazar of the high priesthood". Josephus' related word is the offending word "ἀρχιερέα". The context is removal for the purpose of being replaced. This supports the natural understanding that there was only one official High Priest at a time. Once you were removed you would no longer be "The High Priest".

    2) Ananus is introduced as the new High Priest at this time with emphasis on his holding the office.
2. As Coponius, who we told you was sent along with Cyrenius, was exercising his office of procurator, and governing Judea, the following accidents happened. As the Jews were celebrating the feast of unleavened bread, which we call the Passover, it was customary for the priests to open the temple-gates just after midnight.
  • 1) No use of the offending word here. Josephus uses "ἱερεῦσιν" (priests).
2...Tiberius Nero, his wife Julia's son, succeeded. He was now the third emperor; and he sent Valerius Gratus to be procurator of Judea, and to succeed Annius Rufus. This man deprived Ananus of the high priesthood, and appointed Ismael, the son of Phabi, to be high priest. He also deprived him in a little time, and ordained Eleazar, the son of Ananus, who had been high priest before, to be high priest; which office, when he had held for a year, Gratus deprived him of it, and gave the high priesthood to Simon, the son of Camithus; and when he had possessed that dignity no longer than a year, Joseph Caiaphas was made his successor. When Gratus had done those things, he went back to Rome, after he had tarried in Judea eleven years, when Pontius Pilate came as his successor.
Lot of information here:
  • 1) Ananus has the high priesthood taken away. Literally Josephus says that Ananus was no longer a Priest (ἱερᾶσθαι). Ouch!

    2) Ismael is made the new High Priest (ἀρχιερέα).

    3) Ismael is removed (the Greek word is "changed").

    4) Eleazar, son of Ananus, is made High Priest (the Greek word is "elevated to"). Josephus is kind enough to use the genitive here, "elevated to the office of High Priest".

    5) Reference to Ananus having the High Priesthood taken way from him.

    6) Simon succeeds Eleazar. Literally, "and when he had possessed that honor no longer".

    7) Joseph Caiaphas was made his successor.
Note that at this point regarding the High Priesthood, Josephus is primarily identifying the succession of official High Priests and there is no evidence here that there was more than one official High Priest at a time or that any former High Priest would still have any official responsibilities.


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steve43
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Re: Luke and Annas the high priest

Post by steve43 »

Is that the proper interpretation of the word "deprived?"

There is nothing to suggest that the elder Ananus did anything wrong or crossed the Romans. And he and his sons did dominate the High Priesthood for decades afterward. It is possible that Simon paid off Gratus for the honor. Josephus has nothing but praise for the elder Ananus.
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JoeWallack
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Re: Luukee! Ya Got Sum Splainin Ta Do

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JW:
Continuing with Josephus:

Antiquities of the Jews - Book XVIII CHAPTER 4

Perseus
3. But Vitellius came into Judea, and went up to Jerusalem; it was at the time of that festival which is called the Passover. Vitellius was there magnificently received, and released the inhabitants of Jerusalem from all the taxes upon the fruits that were bought and sold, and gave them leave to have the care of [1]the high priest's vestments, with all their ornaments, and to have them under the custody of [2]the priests in the temple, which power they used to have formerly, although at this time they were laid up in the tower of Antonia, the citadel so called, and that on the occasion following: There was [3]one of the [high] priests, named Hyrcanus; and as there were many of that name, he was the first of them; this man built a tower near the temple, and when he had so done, he generally dwelt in it, and had these vestments with him, because it was lawful for him alone to put them on, and he had them there reposited when he went down into the city, and took his ordinary garments; the same things were continued to be done by his sons, and by their sons after them. But when Herod came to be king, he rebuilt this tower, which was very conveniently situated, in a magnificent manner; and because he was a friend to Antonius, he called it by the name of Antonia. And as he found these vestments lying there, he retained them in the same place, as believing, that while he had them in his custody, the people would make no innovations against him. The like to what Herod did was done by his son Archelaus, who was made king after him; after whom the Romans, when they entered on the government, took possession of these vestments of [4]the high priest, and had them reposited in a stone-chamber, under the seal of the priests, and of the keepers of the temple, the captain of the guard lighting a lamp there every day; and seven days before a festival (13) they were delivered to them by the captain of the guard, when [5]the high priest having purified them, and made use of them, laid them up again in the same chamber where they had been laid up before, and this the very next day after the feast was over. This was the practice at the three yearly festivals, and on the fast day; but Vitellius put those garments into our own power, as in the days of our forefathers, and ordered the captain of the guard not to trouble himself to inquire where they were laid, or when they were to be used; and this he did as an act of kindness, to oblige the nation to him. Besides which, he also deprived Joseph, who was also called [6]Caiaphas, of the high priesthood, and [7]appointed Jonathan the son of Ananus, the former high priest, to succeed him. After which, he took his journey back to Antioch.
[1]the high priest's = ἀρχιερέως. Genitive singular for the High Priest. "The High Priest's vestments". The official outfit that only the official High Priest would wear.

[2]the priests = ἱερῷ

[3]one of the [high] priests = ἱερέων

[4]the high priest = ἀρχιερέως

[5]the high priest = ἀρχιερεὺς

[6]Caiaphas, of the high priesthood = ἀρχιερέα. Note that once again Josephus speaks of someone having the High Priesthood taken away, "he also deprived Joseph, who was also called Caiaphas, of the high priesthood". Josephus' words, not mine.

[7]appointed Jonathan the son of Ananus, the former high priest, to succeed him = ἀρχιερέως. Note especially, "Ananus, the former high priest". Literally, "brought down" I think as opposed to "raised up". So in the words of Josephus Ananus was a former High Priest.

It looks like from the above that per Josephus:
  • 1 - There was only one official High Priest at a time.

    2 - Josephus would only refer to "The Priesthood" of one High Priest at a time.

    3 - Josephus regarded the related Roman appointments as authoritative.

    4 - Josephus could use the title "High Priest" of a former High Priest for identification purposes.

    5 - Josephus explicitly identifies Ananus as a former High Priest.

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maryhelena
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Re: Luukee! Ya Got Sum Splainin Ta Do

Post by maryhelena »

JoeWallack wrote:JW:
Continuing with Josephus:

Antiquities of the Jews - Book XVIII CHAPTER 4

Perseus
3. But Vitellius came into Judea, and went up to Jerusalem; it was at the time of that festival which is called the Passover. Vitellius was there magnificently received, and released the inhabitants of Jerusalem from all the taxes upon the fruits that were bought and sold, and gave them leave to have the care of [1]the high priest's vestments, with all their ornaments, and to have them under the custody of [2]the priests in the temple, which power they used to have formerly, although at this time they were laid up in the tower of Antonia, the citadel so called, and that on the occasion following: There was [3]one of the [high] priests, named Hyrcanus; and as there were many of that name, he was the first of them; this man built a tower near the temple, and when he had so done, he generally dwelt in it, and had these vestments with him, because it was lawful for him alone to put them on, and he had them there reposited when he went down into the city, and took his ordinary garments; the same things were continued to be done by his sons, and by their sons after them. But when Herod came to be king, he rebuilt this tower, which was very conveniently situated, in a magnificent manner; and because he was a friend to Antonius, he called it by the name of Antonia. And as he found these vestments lying there, he retained them in the same place, as believing, that while he had them in his custody, the people would make no innovations against him. The like to what Herod did was done by his son Archelaus, who was made king after him; after whom the Romans, when they entered on the government, took possession of these vestments of [4]the high priest, and had them reposited in a stone-chamber, under the seal of the priests, and of the keepers of the temple, the captain of the guard lighting a lamp there every day; and seven days before a festival (13) they were delivered to them by the captain of the guard, when [5]the high priest having purified them, and made use of them, laid them up again in the same chamber where they had been laid up before, and this the very next day after the feast was over. This was the practice at the three yearly festivals, and on the fast day; but Vitellius put those garments into our own power, as in the days of our forefathers, and ordered the captain of the guard not to trouble himself to inquire where they were laid, or when they were to be used; and this he did as an act of kindness, to oblige the nation to him. Besides which, he also deprived Joseph, who was also called [6]Caiaphas, of the high priesthood, and [7]appointed Jonathan the son of Ananus, the former high priest, to succeed him. After which, he took his journey back to Antioch.
[1]the high priest's = ἀρχιερέως. Genitive singular for the High Priest. "The High Priest's vestments". The official outfit that only the official High Priest would wear.

[2]the priests = ἱερῷ

[3]one of the [high] priests = ἱερέων

[4]the high priest = ἀρχιερέως

[5]the high priest = ἀρχιερεὺς

[6]Caiaphas, of the high priesthood = ἀρχιερέα. Note that once again Josephus speaks of someone having the High Priesthood taken away, "he also deprived Joseph, who was also called Caiaphas, of the high priesthood". Josephus' words, not mine.

[7]appointed Jonathan the son of Ananus, the former high priest, to succeed him = ἀρχιερέως. Note especially, "Ananus, the former high priest". Literally, "brought down" I think as opposed to "raised up". So in the words of Josephus Ananus was a former High Priest.

It looks like from the above that per Josephus:
  • 1 - There was only one official High Priest at a time.

    2 - Josephus would only refer to "The Priesthood" of one High Priest at a time.

    3 - Josephus regarded the related Roman appointments as authoritative.

    4 - Josephus could use the title "High Priest" of a former High Priest for identification purposes.

    5 - Josephus explicitly identifies Ananus as a former High Priest.

Josephus

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Thus, in Luke 3:2, the Lukan writer is indicating a time marker when he mentions "during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas," ie the Lukan writer is not having two high priests in office during the 15th year of Tiberius.

Lysanias of Abilene - around 40 b.c.e.
High Priest Annas/Ananus - from 6 c.e.
Tiberious 15th year - around 29/30 c.e.

The Lukan writer is, at it were, rewinding the historical tape of 37 b.c.e. within his gospel crucifixion story - 70 years after the tragic end of the last Hasmonean King and High Priest.

Luke's gospel story incorporates Hasmonean/Jewish history - history which is the backbone of his prophetic interpretations and 'historical' reconstructions. History which starts from 40 b.c.e. the year Antigonus took Jerusalem and ruled for 3 short years prior to his being hung on a cross, scourged and finally beheaded. (37 b.c.e.)
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steve43
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Re: Luke and Annas the high priest

Post by steve43 »

I think the parsing of High Priest, former and current, is taken to extremes. As I posted earlier and people seem to ignore, being a High Priest meant you were favored by God and being "deprived" of the post through whatever means did not diminish that aspect of it. Ex-US Presidents are referred to as "President", for instance.

As for MaryHelena, let me just comment that the 15th year of Tiberius' reign was A.D. 28. Period.

You have a lot of historical backfill to intellectually process before you can make sweeping generalizations about those times and expect to be taken seriously.
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Re: Luke and Annas the high priest

Post by maryhelena »

steve43 wrote:I think the parsing of High Priest, former and current, is taken to extremes. As I posted earlier and people seem to ignore, being a High Priest meant you were favored by God and being "deprived" of the post through whatever means did not diminish that aspect of it. Ex-US Presidents are referred to as "President", for instance.

As for MaryHelena, let me just comment that the 15th year of Tiberius' reign was A.D. 28. Period.
OK - you don't like my use of 30 c.e. - I'll make it 28/29 c.e. to suit you..... :)

You have a lot of historical backfill to intellectually process before you can make sweeping generalizations about those times and expect to be taken seriously.
Point is that the Lukan writer is using time markers with his reference to two high priests - two high priests holding office at different time periods. The fact that Luke has used Lysanias of Abilene, a ruler not ruling in the 15th year of Tiberius, supports this position.

Luke is not saying two High Priests were in office at the same time ie. the 15th year of Tiberius. Nor is he simply acknowledging that Annas was an earlier High Priest. What purpose would such an acknowledgement or recognition serve? Caiaphas was High Priest in the 15th year of Tiberius. That's all Luke had to mention - if he wanted to name the High Priest in the 15th year of Tiberius. One name was sufficient for all the other territories named. Why give two names for Jerusalem? The only purpose bringing an earlier High Priest into Luke 3 is to use this earlier High Priest as a time-marker for Luke's story.

Why Annas? 6 c.e. (the year of Annas/Ananus appointment) was of interest to Luke. 1) he placed the birth of his Jesus in the time of Quirinius. 2) that year, re Josephus, was the year in which Herodian rule in Judea ended; Archelaus was removed. (later rule being Hasmonean/Herodian) 3) 6 c.e. was around 70 years back to 63 b.c.e. and the removal, by Rome, of Aristobulus II from being King and High Priest.

sweeping generalizations ? There are no generalizations here - it's history - Hasmonean/Jewish history - plain and simple and detailed. ;)
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steve43
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Re: Luke and Annas the high priest

Post by steve43 »

No.

Make it A.D. 28 to suit me.

You don't know the basics, do you?
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JoeWallack
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Re: Luukee! Ya Got Sum Splainin Ta Do

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
Continuing with Josephus:

Antiquities of the Jews - Book XVIII CHAPTER 5

Perseus
1. ABOUT this time Aretas (the king of Arabia Petres) and Herod had a quarrel on the account following: Herod the tetrarch had, married the daughter of Aretas, and had lived with her a great while; but when he was once at Rome, he lodged with Herod, (15) who was his brother indeed, but not by the same mother; for this Herod was the son of the [1]high priest Sireoh's daughter.
[1]the high priest's = ἀρχιερέως. Genitive singular for the High Priest. "The High Priest's daughter".


Antiquities of the Jews - Book XVIIII CHAPTER 6
2. And when Agrippa had entirely finished all the duties of the Divine worship, he removed Theophilus, the son of Ananus, from the [1]high priesthood, and bestowed that honor of his on Simon the son of Boethus, whose name was also Cantheras whose daughter king Herod married, as I have related above. Simon, therefore, had the[2] [high] priesthood with his brethren, and with his father, in like manner as the sons of Simon, the son of Onias, who were three, had it formerly under the government of the Macedonians, as we have related in a former book.
[1] the [1]high priesthood = ἀρχιερωσύνης. Genitive singular for the office of High Priest.

[2]the [high] priesthood with his brethren, and with his father, in like manner as the sons of Simon, the son of Onias, who were three, had it formerly under the government of the Macedonians, as we have related in a former book. = ἱερωσύνην. The priests. Oh defenders, too bad. And the translator was trying so hard.

3. When the king had settled the [1]high priesthood after this manner, he returned the kindness which the inhabitants of Jerusalem had showed him;
[1]high priesthood = ἀρχιερεῖς. Genitive singular for the High Priest. Note the combined excerpt here:
2. And when Agrippa had entirely finished all the duties of the Divine worship, he removed Theophilus, the son of Ananus, from the high priesthood, and bestowed that honor of his on Simon the son of Boethus, whose name was also Cantheras whose daughter king Herod married, as I have related above. Simon, therefore, had the [high] priesthood with his brethren, and with his father, in like manner as the sons of Simon, the son of Onias, who were three, had it formerly under the government of the Macedonians, as we have related in a former book.

3. When the king had settled the high priesthood after this manner, he returned the kindness which the inhabitants of Jerusalem had showed him;
The information given:
  • 1) The King appoints an individual as High Priest = ἀρχιερεῖς.

    2) The implication is that the High Priest selects the other Priests and the combined group is referred to as ἱερωσύνην.
So again it looks like from the above that per Josephus:
  • 1 - There was only one official High Priest at a time.

    2 - Josephus would only refer to "The Priesthood" of one High Priest at a time.

    3 - Josephus regarded the related Roman appointments as authoritative.

    4 - Josephus could use the title "High Priest" of a former High Priest for identification purposes.

    5 - Josephus explicitly identifies Ananus as a former High Priest.

Josephus

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steve43
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Re: Luke and Annas the high priest

Post by steve43 »

thank you!
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JoeWallack
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Re: Luukee! Ya Got Sum Splainin Ta Do

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
Continuing with Josephus:

Antiquities of the Jews - Book XVIIII CHAPTER 6

Perseus
4. Thus did Petronius take care of this matter, that such a breach of the law might be corrected, and that no such thing might be attempted afterwards against the Jews. And now king Agrippa took the [1][high] priesthood away from Simon Cantheras, and put Jonathan, the son of Ananus, into it again, and owned that he was more worthy of that dignity than the other. But this was not a thing acceptable to him, to recover that his former dignity. So he refused it, and said, "O king! I rejoice in the honor that thou hast for me, and take it kindly that thou wouldst give me such a dignity of thy own inclinations, although God hath judged that I am not at all worthy of [2]the high priesthood. [3]I am satisfied with having once put on the sacred garments; for I then put them on after a more holy manner than I should now receive them again. But if thou desirest that a person more worthy than myself should have this honorable employment, give me leave to name thee such a one. I have a brother that is pure from all sin against God, and of all offenses against thyself; I recommend him to thee, as one that is fit for this dignity." So the king was pleased with these words of his, and passed by Jonathan, and, according to his brother's desire, bestowed [4]the high priesthood upon Matthias. Nor was it long before Marcus succeeded Petronius, as president of Syria.
[1][high] priesthood = ἀρχιερωσύνην. Singular and feminine. The office of High Priest.

[2]the high priesthood = ἀρχιερωσύνης. Singular and feminine. The office of High Priest.

[3]"I am satisfied with having once put on the sacred garments; for I then put them on after a more holy manner than I should now receive them again. But if thou desirest that a person more worthy than myself should have this honorable employment, give me leave to name thee such a one."

Again, an indication that there are clothes unique to the one High Priest. Also note that Jonathan thinks he is unworthy of becoming High Priest presumably because he was previously removed as High Priest. The implication is that he thinks he was previously removed as High Priest because God judged him as unworthy and once you are judged as unworthy you are not qualified to become High Priest. As Jonathan is Ananus' son, the implication is Ananus also thought this. Therefore Ananus, contra GLuke, may have though himself unqualified to continue as any type of priest.

[4]the high priesthood = ἱερωσύνην. The priestly function.

So per Josephus:
  • 1 - There was only one official High Priest at a time.

    2 - Josephus would only refer to "The Priesthood" of one High Priest at a time.

    3 - Josephus regarded the related Roman appointments as authoritative.

    4 - Josephus could use the title "High Priest" of a former High Priest for identification purposes.

    5 - Josephus explicitly identifies Ananus as a former High Priest.

    6 - There was special clothing only for the one High Priest.

    7 - There was a thought in Ananus' family that once you were removed as High Priest you were unworthy to be reappointed.

Josephus

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