Luke and Annas the high priest

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steve43
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Re: Luke and Annas the high priest

Post by steve43 »

Do not agree with number 7.

Jonathan was just being humble.

Ex- High Priest Jonathan was a thorn in the side of Felix, by the way. No shrinking violet and he was assassinated by the Sicarii on the grounds of the temple for it in A.D. 56. They were Jewish assassins but paid by Felix.

Josephus says that was the beginning of God turning away from the Jewish people.

Jonathan, according to Hagan in "Fires of Rome" was the High Priest who sent Saul of Tarsus (later Paul) on to harrass and kill the Christians in A.
D. 37.

That Paul made his visit to Jerusalem only a couple years after Jonathan's murder is probably not a coincidence.

A traitor to the Jerusalem Priesthood, Paul might have felt safe (safer) with Jonathan out of the way.
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Tenorikuma
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Re: Luke and Annas the high priest

Post by Tenorikuma »

Thanks for continuing the analysis, JW.
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JoeWallack
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Re: Luukee! Ya Got Sum Splainin Ta Do

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
Continuing with Josephus:

Antiquities of the Jews - Book XVIIII CHAPTER 8

Perseus
1. ...This was very ill taken by Agrippa, who after that became his enemy. And now he took the [1]high priesthood away from Matthias, and made Elioneus, the son of Cantheras, [2]high priest in his stead.
[1][high] priesthood = ἀρχιερωσύνην. Singular and feminine. The office of High Priest.

[2]high priest = ἀρχιερέα. Noun singular and masculine. High Priest.


So per Josephus:
  • 1 - There was only one official High Priest at a time.

    2 - Josephus would only refer to "The Priesthood" of one High Priest at a time.

    3 - Josephus regarded the related Roman appointments as authoritative.

    4 - Josephus could use the title "High Priest" of a former High Priest for identification purposes.

    5 - Josephus explicitly identifies Ananus as a former High Priest.

    6 - There was special clothing only for the one High Priest.

    7 - There was a thought in Ananus' family that once you were removed as High Priest you were unworthy to be reappointed.

Josephus

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steve43
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Re: Luke and Annas the high priest

Post by steve43 »

7 is wrong.

Being High Priest was like being a demi-God. You WERE a demi-God--a link between God and man, and man and the universe. Hence the symbolism on the High Priest's robes.

You had respect for the rest of your life.
Hawthorne
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Re: Luke and Annas the high priest

Post by Hawthorne »

Bernard Muller wrote:to Tenorikuma
@Bernard: I disagree about Luke and Antiquities, obviously.
What's so obvious about it? http://historical-jesus.sosblogs.com/Hi ... b1-p62.htm
Cordially, Bernard
For one, you seem to rely on the assumption that the author of Luke would have used Josephus accurately, but we can see that he does not. "Luke" was curiously sloppy when incorporating flashes of realism from Antiquities, so why not Wars?
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JoeWallack
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Re: Luukee! Ya Got Sum Splainin Ta Do

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
Continuing with Josephus:

Antiquities of the Jews - Book XX CHAPTER 1

Perseus
1. ...And indeed, from that time, Judea was cleared of robberies by the care and providence of Fadus. He also at this time sent for the [1]high priests and the principal citizens of Jerusalem, and this at the command of the emperor, and admonished them that they should lay up the long garment and the sacred vestment, which it is customary for nobody but the [2]high priest to wear, in the tower of Antonia, that it might be under the power of the Romans, as it had been formerly..
[1]high priests = ἀρχιερεῖς. Plural and masculine. The high priests. Ouch! One for the defense. So here apparently the offending word has expanded range from identifying a specific person to referring to a group with a common characteristic. Here presumably the most important priests in the priesthood.

[2]high priest = ἀρχιερεὺς. Singular and masculine. High Priest.

3. Herod also, the brother of the deceased Agrippa, who was then possessed of the royal authority over Chalcis, petitioned Claudius Caesar for the authority over the temple, and the money of the sacred treasure, and the choice of the [1]high priests, and obtained all that he petitioned for. So that after that time this authority continued among all his descendants till the end of the war (1) Accordingly, Herod removed the last [2]high priest, called Cimtheras, and bestowed that dignity on his successor Joseph, the son of Cantos.
[1]high priests = ἀρχιερέων. Plural, masculine and genitive. No problem for the offense here as there is no chronological limit ("choice of the High Priest" technically indicates you only pick the next one).

[2]high priest = ἀρχιερωσύνης. Singular, feminine and genitive. The office of High Priest.


So per Josephus:
  • 1 - There was only one official High Priest at a time.

    2 - Josephus would only refer to "The Priesthood" of one High Priest at a time.

    3 - Josephus regarded the related Roman appointments as authoritative.

    4 - Josephus could use the title "High Priest" of a former High Priest for identification purposes.

    5 - Josephus explicitly identifies Ananus as a former High Priest.

    6 - There was special clothing only for the one High Priest.

    7 - There was a thought in Ananus' family that once you were removed as High Priest you were unworthy to be reappointed.

    8 - Josephus does use the offending word to refer to the plural of High Priest at the same time. Presumably this usage has a general meaning, the most important Priests.

Josephus

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JoeWallack
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Re: Luukee! Ya Got Sum Splainin Ta Do

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
Continuing with Josephus:

Antiquities of the Jews - Book XX CHAPTER 5

Perseus
2... But now Herod, king of Chalcis, removed Joseph, the son of Camydus, from the [1]high priesthood, and made Ananias, the son of Nebedeu, his successor.
[1]high priesthood = ἀρχιερωσύνης. Singular feminine and genitive. His office of high priest.


Antiquities of the Jews - Book XX CHAPTER 6
whom Quadratus ordered to be put to death: but still he sent away Ananias the [1]high priest,
[1] high priest = ἀρχιερέα. Singular and masculine. The High Priest


Antiquities of the Jews - Book XX CHAPTER 8
8. About this time king Agrippa gave the [1]high priesthood to Ismael, who was the son of Fabi. And now arose a sedition between [2]the high priests and the principal men of the multitude of Jerusalem; each of which got them a company of the boldest sort of men, and of those that loved innovations about them, and became leaders to them; and when they struggled together, they did it by casting reproachful words against one another, and by throwing stones also. And there was nobody to reprove them; but these disorders were done after a licentious manner in the city, as if it had no government over it. And such was the impudence (21) and boldness that had seized on the [3]high priests, that they had the hardiness to send their servants into the threshing-floors, [4]to take away those tithes that were due to the priests, insomuch that it so fell out that the poorest sort of the priests died for want. To this degree did the violence of the seditious prevail over all right and justice.
[1]high priesthood = ἀρχιερωσύνην. Singular and feminine. The office of the High Priest.

[2]the high priests = ἀρχιερεῦσι. Plural and masculine. The High Priests. He did it again! Note the general usage though. This is a description of a group and not individuals.

[3]high priests = ἀρχιερεῖς. Plural and masculine. And again.

[4]Josephus provides the context here that when he uses the offending word to describe a group he is contrasting two groups, higher level priests and lower level priests. In this context, combined with his detail listing of the succession of High Priests, it should be understood that his usage of the plural form of the word here does not indicate there was more than one official High Priest at a time.


So per Josephus:
  • 1 - There was only one official High Priest at a time.

    2 - Josephus would only refer to "The Priesthood" of one High Priest at a time.

    3 - Josephus regarded the related Roman appointments as authoritative.

    4 - Josephus could use the title "High Priest" of a former High Priest for identification purposes.

    5 - Josephus explicitly identifies Ananus as a former High Priest.

    6 - There was special clothing only for the one High Priest.

    7 - There was a thought in Ananus' family that once you were removed as High Priest you were unworthy to be reappointed.

    8 - Josephus does use the offending word to refer to the plural of High Priest at the same time. Presumably this usage has a general meaning, the most important Priests.

Josephus

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Kunigunde Kreuzerin
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Re: Luke and Annas the high priest

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

Thanks Joe, very interesting!
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JoeWallack
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Re: Luukee! Ya Got Sum Splainin Ta Do

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
Continuing with Josephus:

Antiquities of the Jews - Book XX CHAPTER 8

Perseus
11. and when Festus had given them leave so to do, they sent ten of their principal men to Nero, as also Ismael the [1]high priest, and Helcias, the keeper of the sacred treasure. And when Nero had heard what they had to say, he not only forgave (22) them what they had already done, but also gave them leave to let the wall they had built stand. This was granted them in order to gratify Poppea, Nero's wife, who was a religious woman, and had requested these favors of Nero, and who gave order to the ten ambassadors to go their way home; but retained Helcias and Ismael as hostages with herself. As soon as the king heard this news, he gave [2]the high priesthood to Joseph, who was called Cabi, the son of Simon, formerly [3]high priest.
[1]high priest = ἀρχιερέα. Singular masculine. The High Priest.

[2]the high priesthood = ἀρχιερωσύνην. Singular feminine. The High Priesthood.

[3]high priest = ἀρχιερέως. Singular masculine genitive. High Priest. While the context indicates "formerly" I have to confess that I do not see "formerly" in the Greek. Looks like another example of Josephus using the offending word on someone who was not the current High Priest for identification purposes.

So per Josephus:
  • 1 - There was only one official High Priest at a time.

    2 - Josephus would only refer to "The Priesthood" of one High Priest at a time.

    3 - Josephus regarded the related Roman appointments as authoritative.

    4 - Josephus could use the title "High Priest" of a former High Priest for identification purposes.

    5 - Josephus explicitly identifies Ananus as a former High Priest.

    6 - There was special clothing only for the one High Priest.

    7 - There was a thought in Ananus' family that once you were removed as High Priest you were unworthy to be reappointed.

    8 - Josephus does use the offending word to refer to the plural of High Priest at the same time. Presumably this usage has a general meaning, the most important Priests.

Josephus

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JoeWallack
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Re: Luukee! Ya Got Sum Splainin Ta Do

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
And now we get to the interesting part, the second most famous passage in eXTant Josephus:

Antiquities of the Jews - Book XX CHAPTER 9

Perseus
1. AND now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the [1]high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the [2]office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our [3]high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the [4]high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, (23) who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king [Agrippa], desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrim without his consent. (24) Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the [5]high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, [6]high priest.
[1]high priesthood = ἱερωσύνην. Singular feminine. The office of Priest.

[2]office of a high priest = ἀρχιερατεῦσαι. Singular verb. Acted as High Priest.

[3]high priests = ἀρχιερέων. Plural masculine genitive. Holders of the office of High Priest. Use of the plural but again the context is clear that there is a chronological distinction = only one High Priest at a time.

[4]high priesthood = ἀρχιερωσύνην. Singular feminine. The High Priesthood.

[5]high priesthood = Ἀρχιερωσύνην. Singular feminine. The High Priesthood.

[6]high priest = Literally no word for priest here. The context is that Jesus replaced Ananus (as high priest).

In addition to supporting the usage of the offending word by Josephus below, this famous writ of passage also has two other subjects of interest:
  • 1) The passage indicates that in the supposed time of Jesus the High Priest did not have the authority to assemble a Sanhedrin supporting the holy and blessed Talmud and contradicting the Gospels and Brown. This will be dealt with in my related Thread Judas Priests. Who/What was the Sanhedrin Headarch/Number?

    2) We see quality parallels here between Josephus and the supposed trial of Jesus. It's been demonstrated that Josephus parallels best with the Gospel "Luke". Having Josephus describe a critical trial illegally presided by a High Priest Ananus where a James is convicted and Ananus is replaced as High Priest by a Jesus may explain the starting question of this Thread = Why does GLuke show Ananus as High Priest when historically Caiphas was High Priest.
But getting back to the question of this Thread, per Josephus:
  • 1 - There was only one official High Priest at a time.

    2 - Josephus would only refer to "The Priesthood" of one High Priest at a time.

    3 - Josephus regarded the related Roman appointments as authoritative.

    4 - Josephus could use the title "High Priest" of a former High Priest for identification purposes.

    5 - Josephus explicitly identifies Ananus as a former High Priest.

    6 - There was special clothing only for the one High Priest.

    7 - There was a thought in Ananus' family that once you were removed as High Priest you were unworthy to be reappointed.

    8 - Josephus does use the offending word to refer to the plural of High Priest at the same time. Presumably this usage has a general meaning, the most important Priests.

Josephus

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