The Latin of the forsaken cry in Mark

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Giuseppe
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The Latin of the forsaken cry in Mark

Post by Giuseppe »

The meaning given to Jesus' cry from Latin:

deus meus, deus meus, ad quid me maledixisti

.. is a curious combination of Psalm 22:

My God, my God, why do you abandon me?

...and Deuteronomy 22:23

Cursed by God is the crucified one

It is exactly in conformity with the doctrine of Paul who teaches:

"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a cursed object for us, because it is written: Cursed is he who hangs from the wood"

(Gal. 3:13).

Jesus, hanging on wood, is expressly cursed by God.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: The Latin of the forsaken cry in Mark

Post by Giuseppe »

The confusion between Eloi and Elijah is more justified in the Latin text:

XV, 34-35
exclamauit uoce magna : heli heliam etzaphani, deus meus, deus meus, ad quid me maledixisti. et quidam eorum qui aderant, cum audissent, aiebant : helian uocat.

...but it is less probable in Greek, between ἡλεὶ and Ἡλίαν; or, between ἐλωὶ and Ἡλίαν.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: The Latin of the forsaken cry in Mark

Post by Giuseppe »

The reason for a cursing of Jesus on the cross by the creator has probably to be found in a judaization of the Gnostic myth that had the demiurge himself, with other 6 archons, crucifying Jesus in Outer Space.

It is the same process by which Satan is made the tempter of Jesus in the wilderness by putting on his mouth arguments based on the words of YHWH himself (!) in the OT (an anomaly signaled by prof Thomas L. Thompson, too).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: The Latin of the forsaken cry in Mark

Post by Giuseppe »

But the question of the people around the cross:

Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said.

(15:36)

...seems a guilty denial that Jesus was the Jewish Christ, since the precursor of the Messiah, Elijah, had not shown himself before the Messiah, not even in extremis.

But the Reader knows that the precursor had come in the person of John the Baptist.

Again, the only people interested to deny that Jesus was the Jewish Christ by pointing out his missing connection with John the Baptist were the followers of Marcion, Valentinus, Basilides. Hence, they are the polemical target of Mark 15:36.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: The Latin of the forsaken cry in Mark

Post by Giuseppe »

Note the occurrence of the same pattern:
  • In the temptation stories, "Mark" (author) concedes that the Tempter talks as YHWH, but he denies that the true Tempter is YHWH;
  • In the forsaken cry, "Mark" (author) concedes that the One who curses Jesus is YHWH, but he denies that the true Killer of Jesus is YHWH.


In both the cases, the warning addressed to the original readers, quasi a heartfelt appeal, a cry of desperation, is the following:

Even if you had heard about YHWH being the Evil one who crucified Jesus, please, I pray you, let you know that Jesus was yes crucified, but not by YHWH!!!
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Charles Wilson
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Re: The Latin of the forsaken cry in Mark

Post by Charles Wilson »

I'll see your Latin and raise you an Aramaic:

1. "And in the ninth hour - cried out Yeshua - in a voice - loud - and said - Eil Eil Lmana schwaqthani - that is - my God - my God - why - have you spared me"

Younan Translation, from the Interlinear, Peshitta.org

2. "And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying Eli, Eli, lemana, shabakthani!
which means, My God, my God, [for]* this I was spared!"

Lamsa Translation

*Phun Phact: Early on with the Internet, the Lamsa Translation was scanned but the Optical Character Reader that was used rendered "few" instead of "for" and this "Scribal Error" has been repeated in several Digital Copies of Lamsa.

There are others from the Eastern Group but the point is the same: The meaning of the Key Verse is different than one would expect. Giuseppe, you make the same mistake over and over.

Existence is not a Predicate. If I assert "Jesus", the existence of Jesus is given for the purpose of the sentence. Same with "Zeus" or "Barney, your favorite purple dinosaur".

From the fact that the "Jesus Stories" were written from "Source Stories", it does not follow that the "Source Stories" were about "Jesus".

BTW, some of the Aramaic Primacist people have a difficult time with 15:34 as well and for the same reason.
It means, however, what it says. The character who was rewritten as "Jesus" WAS spared previously. He should have died by the Temple where 3000+ were murdered. It was the child Peter who saved him.

Jairus asks this Priest to make one more Call to Glory and the Priest accepts, knowing that he will go to his death, 12 years after the "Miracle" that spared him.

"My God, my God, for this was I spared?"

Absolutely, Positively makes PERFECT SENSE!
No celestial crucifixion or other Mumbo-Jumbo needed.

CW
Giuseppe
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Re: The Latin of the forsaken cry in Mark

Post by Giuseppe »

Charles Wilson wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:52 pmThe character who was rewritten as "Jesus" WAS spared previously.
you are a historicist.

My point is not that the original was Latin. Read well my last post.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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