James 5.17, Luke 4.25-26, and Elijah.

[Ben C. Smith]

According to two different NT authors, Elijah banished rain for three and a half years:

James 5.17: 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months.

Luke 4.25-26: 25 But I say to you in truth, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the sky was shut up for three years and six months, when a great famine came over all the land; 26 and yet Elijah was sent to none of them, but only to Zarephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow.

But the OT does not confirm quite this exact a figure for the period of drought:

1 Kings 17.1; 18.1: 17.1 Now Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the settlers of Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the Lord, the God of Israel lives, before whom I stand, surely there shall be neither dew nor rain these years, except by my word.” .... 18.1 Now it happened after many days that the word of the Lord came to Elijah in the third year, saying, “Go, show yourself to Ahab, and I will send rain on the face of the earth.”

It seems forced to me to try to add six months to the beginning of this hazy period of three years in 1 Kings, as some Christian commentators are wont to do. I am, instead, tempted to seek in a different direction:

Daniel 7.25: 25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. [Assuming "times" = two times, this total comes to three and a half.]

Daniel 12.7: 7 I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed. [Ditto.]

Revelation 11.1-3: 1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. 2 Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. 3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” [1260 days = 42 months of 30 days each = 3 years of 360 days each + 6 months.]

Revelation 13.5: 5 There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.

Now I, admittedly, am a bit prone by this point to finding Danielic connections in Christian texts. But is there a better explanation for this exact figure of three and a half years than some sort of connection with the principle of 3½ espoused in certain apocalyptic texts? In some eschatological schemes Elijah is supposed to return before the end as forerunner, and he seems to be represented as one of the two witnesses in Revelation 11 (refer especially to verse 6), so Revelation itself becomes yet a third Christian text attributing a period of three and a half years to Elijah, albeit it in an eschatological context rather than in an historical one.

[John2]

I've never thought about this before. I guess I had just assumed it was in the OT. But the first commentary I've looked at (The Bible Exposition Commentary - Volume 1 2003) says:

It's likely that Elijah appeared before King Ahab in October, about the time the early rains should have begun. There had been no rain for six months, from April to October, and the prophet announced there would be no rain for the next three years!


https://www.google.com/books/edition/Th ... frontcover

Now, if the part about Elijah appearing before Ahab in October and there having been no rain for six months before that is correct, is it possible that James is saying that while Elijah had prayed "that it would not rain," it had not rained for three and a half years including the previous six months?


James 5:17-18:

Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth yielded its crops.

[Ben C. Smith]

Now, if the part about there having been no rain for six months before Elijah's announcement is correct, is it possible that James is saying that while Elijah had prayed "that it would not rain," it had not rained for three and a half years including the previous six months of drought?

This is the response that I said in the OP that I found to be forced. I do not buy it. The OT does not specify these 6 months; they are an assumption based both on the typical rainy season in Palestine and on the supposition that the NT writers "did the math" and worked backward to find those 6 months.

The relationship to the other periods of three and a half periods/years seems more compelling to me. YMMV.

[John2]

Now, if the part about there having been no rain for six months before Elijah's announcement is correct, is it possible that James is saying that while Elijah had prayed "that it would not rain," it had not rained for three and a half years including the previous six months of drought?

This is the response that I said in the OP that I found to be forced. I do not buy it. The OT does not specify these 6 months; they are an assumption based both on the typical rainy season in Palestine and on the supposition that the NT writers "did the math" and worked backward to find those 6 months.

The relationship to the other periods of three and a half periods/years seems more compelling to me. YMMV.

Ah, I missed that. I'm new to this, as I said. So there is no indication that Elijah appeared before Ahab in October (or at any particular time)?

[Ben C. Smith]

Now, if the part about there having been no rain for six months before Elijah's announcement is correct, is it possible that James is saying that while Elijah had prayed "that it would not rain," it had not rained for three and a half years including the previous six months of drought?

This is the response that I said in the OP that I found to be forced. I do not buy it. The OT does not specify these 6 months; they are an assumption based both on the typical rainy season in Palestine and on the supposition that the NT writers "did the math" and worked backward to find those 6 months.

The relationship to the other periods of three and a half periods/years seems more compelling to me. YMMV.

Ah, I missed that. I'm new to this, as I said. So there is no indication that Elijah appeared before Ahab in October (or at any particular time)?

Right. At least nothing direct.

ETA: It is just chapters 17-18 of 1 Kings. See what you think.

[John2]

Right. At least nothing direct.

ETA: It is just chapters 17-18 of 1 Kings. See what you think.

Ah, geez. So much for the easy solution then. And I figure you've already considered this, but is the LXX (or any variant texts in Greek or Hebrew) any different on this matter?

But what about 1 Kings 16:35?

And by the seventh month it still had not rained, so the land of Israel was quite parched.

[Ben C. Smith]

Right. At least nothing direct.

ETA: It is just chapters 17-18 of 1 Kings. See what you think.

Ah, geez. So much for the easy solution then. And I figure you've already considered this, but is the LXX (or any variant texts in Greek or Hebrew) any different on this matter?

I have indeed done some checking, including (obviously) the OG (first place I checked) and the Targum (pseudo-Jonathan), and have so far come up empty.

But what about 1 Kings 16:35?

And by the seventh month it still had not rained, so the land of Israel was quite parched.

If only.

[Giuseppe]

he seems to be represented as one of the two witnesses in Revelation 11 (refer especially to verse 6), so Revelation itself becomes yet a third Christian text attributing a period of three and a half years to Elijah, albeit it in an eschatological context rather than in an historical one.

What moves you to accept Elijah as one of the two witnesses, in opposition to Joshua of Zechariah?