How "Synagogues" judaize a mythicist Logion

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Giuseppe
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How "Synagogues" judaize a mythicist Logion

Post by Giuseppe » Thu May 21, 2020 12:39 am

Try to remove 'Synagogues' from Luke 12:11-12 and you gain a mythicist Logion:

“When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.”

...insofar it fits perfectly the situation of the soul who has to ascend beyond the archontic Gate-keepers in lower heavens: the only original 'rulers and authorities' who are meant in the original Logion.

Apocalypse of James 1:8.30_
I taught you what to say before the archons

See also Epiphanius Panarion, 26:13.

The equivalent passages have euhemerized even more the original entirely mythical context of the Logion:

Mark 13:9-11
“You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. 10 And the gospel must first be preached to all nations. 11 Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.


Matthew 10:17-19
Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say,

Luke 21:12-14
“But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. 13 And so you will bear testimony to me. 14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves.

Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Charles Wilson
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Re: How "Synagogues" judaize a mythicist Logion

Post by Charles Wilson » Thu May 21, 2020 9:18 am

1. My Dad used to have his shirts euhemerized at the Dry Cleaners back in the 1960s for 79 cents a shirt!!!

2. The "Holy Spirit" represents Domitian. The genius of the NT is that there was so much left in the texts that was contradictory. "Let the believers work it all out so they say that they understand it."

3. You still don't realize that "Synagogues" represents the Judaic Culture under the Hasmoneans. You can't "...remove the synagogues" because that is what was destroyed by the Romans. That's the Story. All of the Mumbo-Jumbo piled on after was for effect. As Historical reading, your work may be noted but your Logical reasoning from the History does not follow. See: Uzi Leibner, Settlements in Galilee..., https://www.amazon.com/s?k=uzi+leibner+ ... _ss_i_1_11 .

4. The Synagogues in Galilee give the Lists of the Priestly Settlements given to them by the Hasmoneans. Jehoiarib had the Settlement Meiron, Immer had Jabnit and so on. THIS History has been almost completely suppressed and lost. You cannot understand the Destruction of the Culture without knowing what was done to eradicate Judaism and replace it with a religion of a savior/god loyal to Rome.

Luke 16: 16 (RSV):

[16] "The law and the prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and every one enters it violently.

There is a lot of History in this one verse. It tells of what the Romans did, how they destroyed the Temple Service and ended it with violence.
"How can we make the Jews worship Caesar without them knowing it?"

Matthew 23: 13 (Moffatt):

Woe to you, you impious scribes and Pharisees!
You shut the Realm of Heaven in men's faces;
You neither enter yourselves,
nor will you let those enter who are on the point of entering.

This is a record of VIOLENCE, not Metaphysics. Understand the Violence first and the Metaphysics will be seen for what it was.

CW
Last edited by Charles Wilson on Thu May 21, 2020 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Giuseppe
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Re: How "Synagogues" judaize a mythicist Logion

Post by Giuseppe » Thu May 21, 2020 9:44 am

This is a record of VIOLENCE, not Metaphysics. Understand the Violence first and the Metaphysics will be seen for what it was.
That is equivalent to make you a mere fan of scholars à la Brandon or Aslan: Jesus existed and was a seditionist.

Hence it escapes me why Neil placed you among "mythicists". Great unforgivable mistake by him.

Note that even Atwill is historicist, not mythicist.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: How "Synagogues" judaize a mythicist Logion

Post by Charles Wilson » Thu May 21, 2020 10:03 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:44 am
This is a record of VIOLENCE, not Metaphysics. Understand the Violence first and the Metaphysics will be seen for what it was.
That is equivalent to make you a mere fan of scholars à la Brandon or Aslan: Jesus existed and was a seditionist.

Hence it escapes me why Neil placed you among "mythicists". Great unforgivable mistake by him.
No, Giuseppe. Don't ruin our one area of agreement.

John was of Bilgah. There was a Priest of Immer who was a "Seditionist". His character was rewritten into the savior/god "Jesus". Immer follows Bilgah in Mishmarot Order but is nonetheless "ranked" above Bilgah because of an Offense committed by Bilgah.

This is the deep level of the rewrite. The Romans took a Story that was viciously, virulently Anti-Roman and Anti-Herodian and turned it into a Pro-Roman History of a fictitious character. The Metaphysics came later and was written to obscure further the History which is painfully there.

It's there if only you would look.
"Archons"? Not so much.

CW

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Giuseppe
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Re: How "Synagogues" judaize a mythicist Logion

Post by Giuseppe » Thu May 21, 2020 10:23 am

Charles Wilson wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:03 am
There was a Priest of Immer who was a "Seditionist". His character was rewritten into the savior/god "Jesus". .... The Romans took a Story that was viciously, virulently Anti-Roman and Anti-Herodian and turned it into a Pro-Roman History of a fictitious character. The Metaphysics came later and was written to obscure further the History which is painfully there.
What strikes me about your post is the excessive moralism you show by that "painfully". Morality is a myth.

I never see you abandon your moralistic approach to Origins.

This is the difference between me and you:
  • I don't hate the Judaizers who euhemerized Jesus Son of Father ("Bar-Abbas") to make YHWH the supreme god, and not the Unknown God of Gnosis;
  • you hate the Romans who euhemerized a god by rewriting the story of a Jewish seditionist. All your discourse is finalized to hate from a moralistic POV these Romans.
In short, you are a moralist. I am not a moralist.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Charles Wilson
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Re: How "Synagogues" judaize a mythicist Logion

Post by Charles Wilson » Thu May 21, 2020 11:08 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:23 am
Charles Wilson wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:03 am
There was a Priest of Immer who was a "Seditionist". His character was rewritten into the savior/god "Jesus". .... The Romans took a Story that was viciously, virulently Anti-Roman and Anti-Herodian and turned it into a Pro-Roman History of a fictitious character. The Metaphysics came later and was written to obscure further the History which is painfully there.
What strikes me about your post is the excessive moralism you show by that "painfully". Morality is a myth.
An old tactic: Pick a word and dissect it, reclassify it and make it sound - to Hegelian Sensibilities - as if I'm the problem. You don't know the difference between "IS" or "OUGHT" in my work.
I never see you abandon your moralistic approach to Origins.
Giuseppe, I have followed a Trail for almost 15 years, clearing out the brush and the trash left over from the Haters of the Jews and the Supersecessionism of the Christian faith that stated that the Culture of Judaism was Retrograde and deserving of destruction. As usual, the reporter of this is the one who gets the arrows in the back.
This is the difference between me and you:
  • I don't hate the Judaizers who euhemerized Jesus Son of Father ("Bar-Abbas") to make YHWH the supreme god, and not the Unknown God of Gnosis;
  • you hate the Romans who euhemerized a god by rewriting the story of a Jewish seditionist. All your discourse is finalized to hate from a moralistic POV these Romans.
What you don't see is that your All-Important Barabbas-Jesus-Son-of-the-Father story is taken from Josephus and concerns the Parthian Pledges who were sent to Rome.

Josephus, Antiquities..., 18, 2, 1:

"When Phraates had had legitimate sons of his own, he had also an Italian maid-servant, whose name was Thermusa, who had been formerly sent to him by Julius Caesar, among other presents. He first made her his concubine; but he being a great admirer of her beauty, in process of time having a son by her, whose name was Phraataces, he made her his legitimate wife, and had a great respect for her. Now she was able to persuade him to do any thing that she said, and was earnest in procuring the government of Parthia for her son; but still she saw that her endeavors would not succeed, unless she could contrive how to remove Phraates's legitimate sons [out of the kingdom;] so she persuaded him to send those his sons as pledges of his fidelity to Rome; and they were sent to Rome accordingly, because it was not easy for him to contradict her commands..."

...and so on. Read the entire Section.
In short, you are a moralist. I am not a moralist.
Ordinarlly, when someone hurls what they see as an insult, I say, "Thank you". I'll let that pass here. We're apples and oranges, Giuseppe.
Keep plugging away.

CW

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Re: How "Synagogues" judaize a mythicist Logion

Post by Ben C. Smith » Thu May 21, 2020 11:34 am

Charles Wilson wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:08 am
You don't know the difference between "IS" or "OUGHT" in my work.
Something of yours that (A) I understand and (B) I sympathize with. :D Hume's Guillotine is ruthless.
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ

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Giuseppe
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Re: How "Synagogues" judaize a mythicist Logion

Post by Giuseppe » Thu May 21, 2020 9:59 pm

According to a Cathar legend, when Adam was expelled from Paradise, he wanted, according to God's command, cultivate the land. Then Satan remembered him that, since the earth was his own property, Adam had to subscribe a written document with Satan, by which he promised to give under the Satanic rule the entire descendance of Adam. Hence precisely that written document was meant in Colossians 2:13-14:

And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross

It is in virtue of that right of property on the earth - because he is his Creator - that Satan can tempt Jesus in the Wilderness by the promise of it, and not for the reason given by "Luke":

The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”
8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’ ”

This is a passage from the Cathar poem:

Who gave you the order to do me damage, to damage the earth of which I am the master?

Adam replied, "God commanded me". Then Satan replied and said to Adam:
"The God here is me, the earth therefore belongs to me. You go from here to paradise, that's where your goods are. I will not accept you here and will not give you the earth".

(my translation from here)

The sequel of the legend is interesting:

The Satanic signature is put on a stone, then the stone was hidden under another stone in the Jordan river.
At the baptism of Jesus by John, Jesus put his foot on this stone, hence the Satanic signature comes out. Jesus takes it in his hand and destroyes it.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: How "Synagogues" judaize a mythicist Logion

Post by Giuseppe » Thu May 21, 2020 10:38 pm

Today I learn a new suggestive explanation of docetism.

One of the Gnostic arguments addressed against Jews is that the supreme god can't be represented, differently from YHWH who is described again and again in the OT. Hence, an invisible god is the supreme god, while a visible god is a false god.

Hence Jesus assumes only the form of the visible, but he was really invisible, accordingly to his true nature coming from the supreme god (not YHWH).

What is both more suggestive and persuasive, is that it was against this equation "invisibility==sign of supreme deity" that the Judaizers were obliged to make Jesus himself confute his presumed invisibility. How ? By inventing even a pre-Christian Jesus who visited the earth in pre-Christian times!
  • It is his Glory that Isaiah has seen (John 12:41):

    Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him.

  • It is himself about which Moses has written (John 5:46):

    For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.

  • it is him the Jews who died in the wilderness had tempted (1 Cor 10:9):


    We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents,

  • it is him who has saved his people from Egypt (Juda 5):

    Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the JESUS at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

  • it is him who Abraham has seen (John 8:56):

    Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

  • it is him, the Son, to which YHWH has said:

    He also says,. “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth

    (Hebrews 1:10)
Hence all that emphasis on Jesus being seen by Patriarchs, etc.: it is all mere Judaization in action, it is not disinterested exegesis of OT. It is a naive exegesis deliberately designed to confute the Gnostic argument that Jesus is ALIEN, UNKNOWN and INVISIBLE just as his FATHER, of which he is the SON ('Bar-Abbas").

  • FACT 1: That is the same doctrine professed by Justin and Irenaeus. This is the best proof that they were Judaizers.
  • FACT 2: This is the reason there was never a pre-Christian cult of Joshua, since if it was there, the Gnostics would have never claimed that Joshua was totally alien and invisible and unknown. And the Judaizers/Catholics would have never need a pre-Christian Joshua to confute the Gnostic haters of YHWH.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: How "Synagogues" judaize a mythicist Logion

Post by Giuseppe » Thu May 21, 2020 10:56 pm

Not only that.

The same legend of Jesus descending in the Sheol was designed to make the point that, being the OT rehabilitated as holy book coming from the supreme god (identified now with the Creator), then the "Just" people of OT - Just according to the old Law - deserved salvation by Jesus, too.

Hence the Marcion's Jesus descending in Sheol was in turn a late legend, too. Therefore Capernaum can't mean Sheol, pace Heracleon.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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