An Aquila and Marcion question

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perseusomega9
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An Aquila and Marcion question

Post by perseusomega9 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:48 pm

Hoffmann in his Marcion On the restitution of Christianity, tells us that Marcion was very literal in his interpretation of the OT. He goes on to say this seems to have been a characteristic of Pontian Jews because contemporaneous with Marcion, Aquila had made a new translation of the OT into Greek which was more literal in its translation. Has anyone looked into that topic more in-depth and do you have any examples of what Hoffmann might mean?

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: An Aquila and Marcion question

Post by Ben C. Smith » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:40 pm

perseusomega9 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:48 pm
Hoffmann in his Marcion On the restitution of Christianity, tells us that Marcion was very literal in his interpretation of the OT. He goes on to say this seems to have been a characteristic of Pontian Jews because contemporaneous with Marcion, Aquila had made a new translation of the OT into Greek which was more literal in its translation. Has anyone looked into that topic more in-depth and do you have any examples of what Hoffmann might mean?
Not an expert in this, but I do know that it is a commonplace to regard Aquila's translation as very literal. Hoffmann is not off on a rail here.

F. C. Burkitt calls Aquila's translation "excessively literal" (Burkitt, "Aquila," The Jewish Quarterly Review 10.2, January 1898, page 209) and then on the next page gives the following example of Aquila following the Hebrew syntax word for word:

Burkitt on Aquila.png
Burkitt on Aquila.png (150.27 KiB) Viewed 1068 times

I have also, on the other hand, read that sometimes Aquila can be looser with his translation, but I do not have any examples ready to go.

ETA: Pay attention to that footnote. The Greek word σφοδρότης typically means violence or vehemence, even though its root word can mean "much." To render the Hebrew מְאֹד as σφοδρότης is a bit like noticing that some event did not happen to a person and thus calling that person hapless. Yes, happen and hapless share the same root, but the latter does not typically mean simply that an event has not happened.
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Re: An Aquila and Marcion question

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:20 pm

Both Marcion and Aquila had their writings banned by the Roman government. https://books.google.com/books?id=pMBlQ ... BnoECAAQAQ
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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perseusomega9
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Re: An Aquila and Marcion question

Post by perseusomega9 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:00 am

I'm only finding one instance of Aquila in the book
In only one law did the lawgiver directly interfere in religious matters.
Justinian stated in a law from 553 (No. 66) that Jews were allowed
to read their holy books in the synagogue in any language they
wished, but if they chose to use a Greek text, they must use the
Septuagint or Aquila's translation.

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Re: An Aquila and Marcion question

Post by perseusomega9 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:25 am

Ben C. Smith wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:40 pm
perseusomega9 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:48 pm
Hoffmann in his Marcion On the restitution of Christianity, tells us that Marcion was very literal in his interpretation of the OT. He goes on to say this seems to have been a characteristic of Pontian Jews because contemporaneous with Marcion, Aquila had made a new translation of the OT into Greek which was more literal in its translation. Has anyone looked into that topic more in-depth and do you have any examples of what Hoffmann might mean?
Not an expert in this, but I do know that it is a commonplace to regard Aquila's translation as very literal. Hoffmann is not off on a rail here.

F. C. Burkitt calls Aquila's translation "excessively literal" (Burkitt, "Aquila," The Jewish Quarterly Review 10.2, January 1898, page 209) and then on the next page gives the following example of Aquila following the Hebrew syntax word for word:


Burkitt on Aquila.png


I have also, on the other hand, read that sometimes Aquila can be looser with his translation, but I do not have any examples ready to go.

ETA: Pay attention to that footnote. The Greek word σφοδρότης typically means violence or vehemence, even though its root word can mean "much." To render the Hebrew מְאֹד as σφοδρότης is a bit like noticing that some event did not happen to a person and thus calling that person hapless. Yes, happen and hapless share the same root, but the latter does not typically mean simply that an event has not happened.
Thanks for the example of Aquila's translation style. I'm not following your footnote reasoning, not saying it's wrong but I'm not seeing where you're getting hapless out of a word that usually means violence/vehemence (I found intensity in another lexicon online but it's not listed as often as vehemence, I wonder if they're getting intensity from this one use in 2 Kings from Aquila?).

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Re: An Aquila and Marcion question

Post by Ben C. Smith » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:24 am

perseusomega9 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:25 am
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:40 pm
perseusomega9 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:48 pm
Hoffmann in his Marcion On the restitution of Christianity, tells us that Marcion was very literal in his interpretation of the OT. He goes on to say this seems to have been a characteristic of Pontian Jews because contemporaneous with Marcion, Aquila had made a new translation of the OT into Greek which was more literal in its translation. Has anyone looked into that topic more in-depth and do you have any examples of what Hoffmann might mean?
Not an expert in this, but I do know that it is a commonplace to regard Aquila's translation as very literal. Hoffmann is not off on a rail here.

F. C. Burkitt calls Aquila's translation "excessively literal" (Burkitt, "Aquila," The Jewish Quarterly Review 10.2, January 1898, page 209) and then on the next page gives the following example of Aquila following the Hebrew syntax word for word:


Burkitt on Aquila.png


I have also, on the other hand, read that sometimes Aquila can be looser with his translation, but I do not have any examples ready to go.

ETA: Pay attention to that footnote. The Greek word σφοδρότης typically means violence or vehemence, even though its root word can mean "much." To render the Hebrew מְאֹד as σφοδρότης is a bit like noticing that some event did not happen to a person and thus calling that person hapless. Yes, happen and hapless share the same root, but the latter does not typically mean simply that an event has not happened.
Thanks for the example of Aquila's translation style. I'm not following your footnote reasoning, not saying it's wrong but I'm not seeing where you're getting hapless out of a word that usually means violence/vehemence (I found intensity in another lexicon online but it's not listed as often as vehemence, I wonder if they're getting intensity from this one use in 2 Kings from Aquila?).
"Hapless" and "happen" have nothing to do with the word in the Greek text. Sorry. It was an analogy, nothing more.

The issue with the Greek word σφοδρότης is that it typically means "violence," even though it comes from another Greek word which simply means "much." Aquila apparently used this Greek word for "violence" to translate a Hebrew word for "greatness" simply because that Greek root is what usually translates that Hebrew root ("great" = "much").

"Hapless" and "happen" were my clumsy way of expressing that kind of operation in English.
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perseusomega9
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Re: An Aquila and Marcion question

Post by perseusomega9 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:42 am

Oh thanks!

I'm wondering if some of the readers took that rendering and interpreted it as vehemence?

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