Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

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Giuseppe
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Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Giuseppe » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:15 am


5. Others still there are who continue to redeem persons even up to the moment of death, by placing on their heads oil and water, or the pre-mentioned ointment with water, using at the same time the above-named invocations, that the persons referred to may become incapable of being seized or seen by the principalities and powers, and that their inner man may ascend on high in an invisible manner, as if their body were left among created things in this world, while their soul is sent forward to the Demiurge. And they instruct them, on their reaching the principalities and powers, to make use of these words: I am a son from the Father — the Father who had a pre-existence, and a son in Him who is pre-existent. I have come to behold all things, both those which belong to myself and others, although, strictly speaking, they do not belong to others, but to Achamoth, who is female in nature, and made these things for herself. For I derive being from Him who is pre-existent, and I come again to my own place whence I went forth. And they affirm that, by saying these things, he escapes from the powers.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103121.htm

By proclaiming herself as "Son of Father", the soul can go beyond the demonic gate-keepers. Just as Jesus Son of Father ("Barabbas") can abandon his Roman prison.

As corollary, Pilate is Pylatis, the apt name for the Archon Gate-Keeper.

This confirms again and again that Couchoud and Stahl were correct about Barabbas being an anti-Gnostic parody by Judaizers.

Who disagrees with Couchoud/Stahl on this precise point is very a colossal amazing idiot
.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Joseph D. L. » Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:54 am

Jesus was also the Son from the Father. Is Jesus also an anti-Gnostic parody of Judiazers? Why is Barabbas the parody and not Jesus?
Who disagrees with Couchoud/Stahl on this precise point is very a colossal amazing idiot.
Who are you to insult others over what they think?

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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Giuseppe » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:30 am

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:54 am
Who disagrees with Couchoud/Stahl on this precise point is very a colossal amazing idiot.
Who are you to insult others over what they think?
I insist: only an idiot can't see the extreme improbability of the coincidence, here:
  • Roman prison == lower heavens
  • Barabbas freed by Pilate as "Son of Father"== the souls freed by demonic gate-keepers as "Sons of Father"
  • Pylatis == Greek for "gate-keeper", and PLT in Hebrew means 'one who releases'.
The implication is that the souls of the Judaizers are imprisoned in this world: they can't ascend, as punition for adore YHWH. Just as the Jesus son of YHWH is not freed but killed.

As to where is the parody, I have already written where it is: Barabbas is a criminal and no Jewish messianist on the earth would claim that the Messiah son of YHWH was a criminal.

The reduction of the freed soul and of the related Gnostic Jesus Son of Father to a criminal named "Barabbas" could only come from a Judaizer, i.e. one like Irenaeus or the Ebionites.
Jesus was also the Son from the Father. Is Jesus also an anti-Gnostic parody of Judiazers? Why is Barabbas the parody and not Jesus?
please don't be you also an idiot. Jesus was the "called king of Jews", he was not the Son of Father. He was the "called Christ". Please like the difference. Otherwise I call you an idiot.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Joseph D. L. » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:14 am

I reject Couchoud and I reject Stahl. You already know my position on Barabbas and I see nothing but attempts at subterfuge and the grossest twisting of words and meaning, coupled with the most tenuous of evidence and quoteminning to prove it.

Barabbas was a rebel and a murderer. Barabbas is more the Jesus of the Ebionites than he is the Jesus of Gnsotics and Marcionites, who, according to you yourself, hated YHWH for being a murderous tyrant, and rebelled against the true God the Father. If you're going to parody something, you don't use your opponents opinion of you and then project back at your opponent. That's not what parody is, and Barabbas is not a parody of anything. He is a proxy, first and foremost, an attempt to reconcile two disparate traditions, and second, to emphasize the role of the scapegoat and transmigration of the Christ spirit. You don't need to invent any Machiavellian intentions or scenarios that you can never prove. You don't need to twist the meaning of phrases, or to look for quotes in Irenaeus for the most tenuous word associations. Occam's Razor cuts your's and Couchoud's and Stahl's interpretation to shreds.

This whole thing shows that you're not thinking clearly at all about this.

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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Giuseppe » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:20 am

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:14 am
I reject Couchoud and I reject Stahl.
Well: you are an idiot. Occam (and Irenaeus) is with me, here.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Joseph D. L. » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:38 am

To be honest, Giuseppe, I don't care what idiots think about me.

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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Giuseppe » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:00 am

Contra factum that you come to dirty this thread.

Therefore you care about what I write.

Therefore you are a liar. And a troll. And an idiot.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.


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Giuseppe
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Giuseppe » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:45 am

  • FACT 1: who escapes the Archons is the Son of Father
  • FACT 2: who escapes Pilate is the Son of Father
  • FACT 3: Pylatis means "Gate-keeper" in Greek and PLT means 'Releaser' in Hebrew
...can't be a absolutely a mere coincidence. And who denies this is a colossal amazing idiot.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Joseph D. L. » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:45 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:45 am
  • FACT 1: who escapes the Archons is the Son of Father
Jesus doesn't escape the archons in the Marcionite/Gnostic theologies. He is killed by them.
  • FACT 2: who escapes Pilate is the Son of Father
Even in Marcion's Gospel, Pilate delivers Jesus to death. Paul even says that he was delivered up to the archons to die.
  • FACT 3: Pylatis means "Gate-keeper" in Greek and PLT means 'Releaser' in Hebrew
θυρωρῷ means gatekeeper. Pylatis isn't a word in Greek, and 'releaser' in Hebrew is משחרר, resh resh chet shin mem, and is a word that never appears in the Old Testament. You are literally making things up now. This is David Icke levels of idiocy and conspiracy theories. How many times have you re-invented Pilate to make him fit your nonsense? I've counted at least five or six.
...can't be a absolutely a mere coincidence. And who denies this is a colossal amazing idiot.
And if you deny what I say and how I interpret it then you are an idiot.

See how easy that is?

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