Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

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Giuseppe
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Giuseppe »

I don't tolerate your idiocy, again and again.

  • FACT 1: Irenaeus says us that, according to Gnostics, the soul who escapes the Archons calls herself the Son of Father
  • FACT 2: Mark says us that who escapes Pilate is the Son of Father
  • FACT 3: Pylatis means "Gate-keeper" in Greek and PLT means 'Releaser' in Hebrew

    πυ^λαῖτις , ιδος, ἡ, (πύλη)
    A.door-keeper, epith. of Athena, Lyc.356.

    Henry George Liddell. Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon. revised and augmented throughout by. Sir Henry Stuart Jones. with the assistance of. Roderick McKenzie. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1940.
    The National Endowment for the Humanities provided support for entering this text.

    viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5021&p=106485&hilit=pylatis#p106481

    pâlaṭ, paw-lat'; a primitive root; to slip out, i.e. escape; causatively, to deliver:—calve, carry away safe, deliver, (cause to) escape.

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... ongs=h6403
...can't be a absolutely a mere coincidence. And who denies this is a colossal amazing idiot.

Joseph_D_L denies this.

Then Joseph_D_L is a colossal amazing idiot.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Giuseppe »

Joseph D. L. wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:45 am
Giuseppe wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:45 am
  • FACT 1: who escapes the Archons is the Son of Father
Jesus doesn't escape the archons in the Marcionite/Gnostic theologies. He is killed by them.
But what are you talking about ?

You don't realize nothing, absolutely nothing of this thread.

I am talking about Irenaeus's quote above.

The sarcastic parody has Barabbas escape. Not the victim of the parody.
You can't reject Couchoud/Stahl when you don't even read their article entirely and completely.

I am done with you.

The metric to judge if one is a good exegete: the way he/she deals with Barabbas.

Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Giuseppe »

It is a great finding in Irenaeus:

5. Others still there are who continue to redeem persons even up to the moment of death, by placing on their heads oil and water, or the pre-mentioned ointment with water, using at the same time the above-named invocations, that the persons referred to may become incapable of being seized or seen by the principalities and powers, and that their inner man may ascend on high in an invisible manner, as if their body were left among created things in this world, while their soul is sent forward to the Demiurge. And they instruct them, on their reaching the principalities and powers, to make use of these words: I am a son from the Father — the Father who had a pre-existence, and a son in Him who is pre-existent. I have come to behold all things, both those which belong to myself and others, although, strictly speaking, they do not belong to others, but to Achamoth, who is female in nature, and made these things for herself. For I derive being from Him who is pre-existent, and I come again to my own place whence I went forth. And they affirm that, by saying these things, he escapes from the powers.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103121.htm

This says us that the parody behind Barabbas has as primary intention to attack the Marcionite claim that the "Jesus Son of Father" was crucified, as opposed to a Jewish Jesus "called Christ" (point fixed by Couchoud/Stahl).

But this says us also that, in the original story (proto-Mark, without the Barabbas episode), Pilate is able to kill only the mere appearance of Jesus Son of Father: the mere carnal Jesus (separationism).
Who was imprisoned in the human recipient is the spiritual Christ, who abandoned the mere man by escaping Pilate, who therefore plays the role of the Pylatis, the Archon gate-keeper.

The human recipient was confused with a 'prison', and it became, in the deliberate parody, a Roman prison, the prison where the criminal Barabbas has to be emprisoned.

And if you think that PLT means 'fugitive' and not 'releaser', then here is the answer, too:

The last quote of Irenaeus above:

And they affirm that, by saying these things, he escapes from the powers.

...is translated in my version as:

And they affirm that, by saying these things, the powers escape.

Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Giuseppe »

The fact is: I read again and again my conclusions, and there is no alternative: they are correct.


The Barabbas episode is an attack against original separationism of proto-Mark.

It criminalizes who was the original hero of the story: Jesus Son of Father, possessor of the victim.

Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:05 am I don't tolerate your idiocy, again and again.
  • FACT 1: Irenaeus says us that, according to Gnostics, the soul who escapes the Archons calls herself the Son of Father
I honestly don't care Irenaeus says. That's not what is in Marcion, Paul, the Ascension of Isaiah or Gospel of Judas or any Gnostic text for that matter. This is just some more of you looking for the most obscure passages and reading things into them.
  • FACT 2: Mark says us that who escapes Pilate is the Son of Father
No he doesn't. Barabbas is released, BY THE JEWS, AGAIN. Pilate was ready and MORE WILLING to kill Barabbas, but because of the Jews he didn't.
  • FACT 3: Pylatis means "Gate-keeper" in Greek and PLT means 'Releaser' in Hebrew

    πυ^λαῖτις , ιδος, ἡ, (πύλη)
    A.door-keeper, epith. of Athena, Lyc.356.

    Henry George Liddell. Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon. revised and augmented throughout by. Sir Henry Stuart Jones. with the assistance of. Roderick McKenzie. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1940.
    The National Endowment for the Humanities provided support for entering this text.

    viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5021&p=106485&hilit=pylatis#p106481

    pâlaṭ, paw-lat'; a primitive root; to slip out, i.e. escape; causatively, to deliver:—calve, carry away safe, deliver, (cause to) escape.

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... ongs=h6403
πυ^λαῖτις isn't a word, ιδος isn't a word (unless you meant εἶδος, which means nothing close to what you said it does), and πύλη, pule, just means gate. How you get Pilate from that is beyond me.

And פָּלַט doesn't mean releaser, which is what you said it does. It means to escape And how does this apply to Pilate? He isn't the one escaping. And he isn't the one who releases Barabbas either. The Jews release Barabbas.

You're just throwing everything together in an attempt to make this work.
...can't be a absolutely a mere coincidence. And who denies this is a colossal amazing idiot.

Joseph_D_L denies this.

Then Joseph_D_L is a colossal amazing idiot.
Giuseppe, you're a child.
Last edited by Joseph D. L. on Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:41 am The fact is: I read again and again my conclusions, and there is no alternative: they are correct.


The Barabbas episode is an attack against original separationism of proto-Mark.

It criminalizes who was the original hero of the story: Jesus Son of Father, possessor of the victim.

Yeah, you're amazed by your own genius, aren't you? Why can't nobody else see it?

And it's easier to be a genius when you're reading your own conclusions and nothing else, then calling others idiots for disagreeing.

How old are you? I seriously want to know. Because no adult that I know acts like you.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.
I would like a show of hands of everyone who disagrees with this, because if you do, apparently Giuseppe thinks you're an idiot.
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Giuseppe »

Joseph D. L. wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:54 am
Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.
I would like a show of hands of everyone who disagrees with this, because if you do, apparently Giuseppe thinks you're an idiot.
I would like the same thing. Because it is clearly the only point where I don't give in and I don't admit retreats whatsoever. So sure I am to have every reason in this world, to conclude so.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Giuseppe »

Some corrections:
Joseph D. L. wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:48 am
πυ^λαῖτις isn't a word, ιδος isn't a word
πυλαιτιδος is the genitive of πυλαῖτις (nominative).

If Pylaitis sounds strange for you, then you have more directly Pylatis.
Giuseppe wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:49 am https://books.google.it/books?id=plKjdk ... is&f=false

Pylaitis has as synonimous Pylatis, too. Always referred to Athena "protectress of the gates".

Πυλατις
Joseph D. L. wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:48 am It means to escape And how does this apply to Pilate? He isn't the one escaping.
I have already the answer to this objection. See above.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Re: Evidence that Irenaeus knows the meaning of Barabbas ("Son of Father")

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:00 am
Joseph D. L. wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:54 am
Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.
I would like a show of hands of everyone who disagrees with this, because if you do, apparently Giuseppe thinks you're an idiot.
I would like the same thing. Because it is clearly the only point where I don't give in and I don't admit retreats whatsoever. So sure I am to have every reason in this world, to conclude so.
The fact that nobody but me responds to your Barabbas threads, is enough to know that nobody cares. There's your answer. And I only respond because when I see something so completely and irredeemably stupid, I have this unhealthy habit, a need, to refute it. I cannot sleep until I do. And that is not a joke. I will keep myself awake thinking about just how unconscionably stupid, ill informed, idiotic, and aborted it is if I don't.

And of all the nonsense you've ever said, Josep, this takes the cake. If this is the hill you want to die on then fine, but nobody buys it.
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