Jesus Naked in the Gospel

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Secret Alias
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Jesus Naked in the Gospel

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:42 am

I am putting the finishing touches on something which I have Ken Olson ultimately to thank for - as well as the boredom associated with coronavirus. And I have a question which the erudite at the forum can answer. I know Jerome's nudus nudum and the idea that a naked disciple follows the naked Christ and connect that to the blind beggar in Mark. Jerome almost always connects his nudus nudum to the question of the rich man. I get all that. Is there any tradition that Jesus was walking naked into Jerusalem or naked except for a red robe? I've got Cyril of Jerusalem sayings something close. But what I want to know is whether some claimed that Jesus when he arrived in Jerusalem or in the praetorium etc. Are there traditions to this effect? Naked on the Cross, yes. But I mean walking around like Adam in the garden of Eden in Jerusalem or the way to Jerusalem. Thanks
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Jesus Naked in the Gospel

Post by Joseph D. L. » Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:29 am

Actually, now that you mention it, wouldn't Lazarus be naked once he was raised?

The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.”

Jesus demands they remove the tachrichim coverings from Lazarus, implying to me that he is naked before the crowd.

Irenaeus states that the Carpocratians possess a portrait of Christ which would have been made in the standard Greco-Roman fashion of a nude athlete. Clement also says that the Carpocratians had in an interest in the naked male form, if you catch my drift. ;)

Circumstantial.

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Secret Alias
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Re: Jesus Naked in the Gospel

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:25 pm

Not what I want. I want Jesus like Lady Godiva.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Jesus Naked in the Gospel

Post by Joseph D. L. » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:15 pm


Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen cloths lying there, and the face cloth, which had been on Jesus' head, not lying with the linen cloths but folded up in a place by itself.

So the resurrected Jesus is definitely unclothed.

Also, a person would be stripped naked before being scourged, and the Gospels never say that he was stripped prior to being scourged.

But this would contradict the references to the Psalm about having his garments divided.

If we consider Mark, however, it ignores the Psalm and it's never not said that he's clothed when he enters Jerusalem. Indeed, Matthew and John's insistence of robing him before the mob may be a way of downplaying Jesus's nakedness, with Matthew going so far as to say, yes he WAS clothed when he was crucified.

That's as far as my thinking goes.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Jesus Naked in the Gospel

Post by Joseph D. L. » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:21 pm

Justin comparing Jesus to Hercules as an athlete might confer that Jesus was seen as a naked god.

:confusedsmiley:

I'm tryin man.

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Re: Jesus Naked in the Gospel

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:26 pm

The question presupposes that people are familiar with the writings of the Church Fathers.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Jesus Naked in the Gospel

Post by Joseph D. L. » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:48 pm

So you specifically want a source from the church fathers, and not mere hermeneutics?

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Re: Jesus Naked in the Gospel

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:12 pm

Is there anyone that wants someone else made up answers? Yes the Church Fathers is more convincing - at least for me.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Charles Wilson
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Re: Jesus Naked in the Gospel

Post by Charles Wilson » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:22 pm

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:15 pm
But this would contradict the references to the Psalm about having his garments divided.
John 19: 23 (RSV):

[23] When the soldiers had crucified Jesus they took his garments and made four parts, one for each soldier; also his tunic. But the tunic was without seam, woven from top to bottom;

Observant as always, Joseph D. L.

"But wait! There's more!"

What is the name of a tunic that has no seam?

CUIRASS.

A cuirass is a defensive garment designed to protect a person from being run through by a sword that pierces the armor at a joint or seam.

Is there History here with this?
Glad you asked:

Suetonius, 12 Caesars, "Galba":

As he was offering sacrifice on the morning before he was killed, a soothsayer warned him again and again to look out for danger, since assassins were not far off.

Not long after this he [Galba] learned that Otho held possession of the Camp, and when several advised him to proceed thither as soon as possible — for they said that he could win the day by his presence and prestige — he decided to do no more than hold his present position and strengthen it by getting together a guard of the legionaries, who were encamped in many different quarters of the city. He did however put on a linen cuirass, though he openly declared that it would afford little protection against so many swords..."

What does this have to do with the gospels? Again, it's GJohn to the rescue:

John 20: 6 - 7 (RSV):

[6] Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; he saw the linen cloths lying,
[7] and the napkin, which had been on his head, not lying with the linen cloths but rolled up in a place by itself.

I've been told that the word "Napkin" here is Latin "Soudarion".
Suetonius 12 C, "Galba":

"He was killed beside the Lake of Curtius and was left lying just as he was, until a common soldier, returning from a distribution of grain, threw down his load and cut off the head. Then, since there was no hair by which to grasp it, he put it under his robe, but later thrust his thumb into the mouth and so carried it to Otho. He handed it over to his servants and camp-followers, who set it on a lance and paraded it about the camp with jeers, crying out from time to time, "Galba, thou Cupid, exult in thy vigour!" The special reason for this saucy jest was, that the report had gone abroad a few days before, that when someone had congratulated him on still looking young and vigorous, he replied:

"'As yet my strength is unimpaired.'

"From these it was bought by a freedman of Patrobius Neronianus for a hundred pieces of gold and thrown aside in the place where his patron had been executed by Galba's order. At last, however, his steward Argivus consigned it to the tomb with the rest of the body in Galba's private gardens on the Aurelian Road. "

CW

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Secret Alias
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Re: Jesus Naked in the Gospel

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:24 pm

Not what I want. Lady Godiva in Jerusalem. Nudus nudum.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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