Nicho-Dem-'s
Re: Nicho-Dem-'s
Its not quantity that matters, it is quality. And I still haven't received an answer about the Passover slaughter. Are you referring to the incident prior to the Passover of 4 BC or the massacres that occurred during the Passover of 3 BC after his death? My point remains is that Josephu is by far our most superior source and should be defaulted to if there is any question- for the most part.
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Charles Wilson
- Posts: 2107
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am
Re: Nicho-Dem-'s
Eisenman and Wise, Dead Seas Scrolls Uncovered, ISBN -132 978-1566-9623-9, p. 108
“In all their timekeeping, the authors of the Qumran calendars reckoned not only by months, but also by the rotation of the priestly courses (mishmarot). The courses would come into Jerusalem for service at the temple for one week, then rotate out as the next group arrived to serve...The order of the priestly courses was originally determined by lot as is laid out in 1 Chronicles 24: 7 – 18...”
The order of the Courses starts with Jehoiarib in 1 Chronicles 24 but starts with Gamul in the Qumran texts. A little research shows that there is some skollerly agreement that the Hasmonaeans are involved with this. They are assigned to Jehoiarib (except for...see below...) and they consider themselves the “Leading Group”. This list is therefore perhaps “Breathed on” a little bit to adjust to certain “sensibilities.”
I believe that the NT is SATURATED with Mishmarot material and the 2000 years of Jewish Culture being Done-Away-With by the New Religion of the Romans has hidden so much of this. We are only now beginning to look at this.
The Mishmarot Metric is mathematical and may be easily analyzed. 24 Groups for a seven day service = 7 * 24 = 168 days. It takes 6 years to complete the Cycle and this is critical to understanding certain features in the Gospel Stories. Examples: “The Woman with the 12 Year Issue of Blood” and “Jairus' Daughter” each feature “12 year” Motifs and the Symbolism becomes easier to see if the Stories reflect the Priesthood through 2 Mishmarot Cycles involving Passovers.
WHICH PASSOVERS? That's the Key. Our first step is to find an Anchor by which we can assign a Date Certain. In Ta'anit 29A , the date of the Destruction of the Temple is given as under the Course of Jehoiarib. See: http://www.schechter.edu/AskTheRabbi.aspx?ID=315 . NOTICE that, here as well, the “History” is possibly as given, but also possibly given to be in alignment with Jehoiarib – again.
When we get to Josephus, we will see that what was written was written in a manner possibly at odds with what is written elsewhere in Josephus. It will be seen that there is the possibility that this FORM of text in Josephus was given – whether written by Josephus or inserted later – to tell another Story that has been hidden. Herod may have died in 4 BCE, 3 BCE, 1 BCE or mebbe he's taking a vacation in Palm Springs to get in another round of golf before the rates go up. I dunno. The text of Antiquities..., Book 17, Chapter 9 and Wars..., Book 2, Chapter 1, however, tell of events in a very compressed manner, a manner that makes sense if the writer was intending a Story to be written about a Mishmarot Group that was on Duty for the Passover of 4 BCE.
I came into this by looking at the Gospels, especially Mark, without the Metaphysics of a Christian Overlay. If we strip out the Ball Peen Hammer of the constant pounding of the Christian Doctrine, is anything left? The answer, to me, is that there is an astonishing amount of Jewish History in the NT – Jannaeus, Salome, Antigonus, Hyrcanus 1 and 2 - in fact, the History of the Hasmonaeans, of Jehoiarib (and maybe even Immer...) of the HOUSE OF ELEAZAR. It's in Josephus, even if sometimes given in an elliptical manner. It's all there and, as I say too often, sometimes it is as if it is screaming at me:
“It's there, it really is there!...”
The Mishmarot Group “Immer”, given by the Hebrew word identical with “Immer” => “Lamb”, provides a word play for “Lamb of God” Immer is on Duty for the Passover of 4 BCE. Immer is on Duty for the Passover 12 years later. If there is no reason to consider a Mishmarot Group for ANY Passover in the NT, then none of this matters. If Josephus wrote the material mentioned above for a reason involving Mishmaorot, then the NT opens up as a “Hidden History” of the House of Eleazar, of Jehoiarib and of Immer:
Revelation 5: 12 – 13, in part (RSV):
[12] saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!"
[13] And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, "To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb...
This what was stolen by the Romans. It makes sense if it refers to Immer and the House of Eleazar, of Johoiarib and the Hasmonaeans, who would provide Kings and Priests. This makes sense if the event is Passover week of 4 BCE.
Passover of 4 BCE begins on Julian Day 1720066 and Immer begins on the following Sabbath (“Destroy this Temple and in 3 days...” Is this now explained?) Jesus asks where he may stay so that he may enjoy his Passover meal. He hasn't rotated in for his Service yet! His Group is next.
“Happizzez” is on Duty for the Passover of 3 BCE. If the Passover Slaughter occurred then, the alignment of Mishmarot makes no sense. So it appears for other Passovers. It certainly makes sense if it is assumed that the Slaughter happened in 4 BCE – or if it was WRITTEN that way.
CW
“In all their timekeeping, the authors of the Qumran calendars reckoned not only by months, but also by the rotation of the priestly courses (mishmarot). The courses would come into Jerusalem for service at the temple for one week, then rotate out as the next group arrived to serve...The order of the priestly courses was originally determined by lot as is laid out in 1 Chronicles 24: 7 – 18...”
The order of the Courses starts with Jehoiarib in 1 Chronicles 24 but starts with Gamul in the Qumran texts. A little research shows that there is some skollerly agreement that the Hasmonaeans are involved with this. They are assigned to Jehoiarib (except for...see below...) and they consider themselves the “Leading Group”. This list is therefore perhaps “Breathed on” a little bit to adjust to certain “sensibilities.”
I believe that the NT is SATURATED with Mishmarot material and the 2000 years of Jewish Culture being Done-Away-With by the New Religion of the Romans has hidden so much of this. We are only now beginning to look at this.
The Mishmarot Metric is mathematical and may be easily analyzed. 24 Groups for a seven day service = 7 * 24 = 168 days. It takes 6 years to complete the Cycle and this is critical to understanding certain features in the Gospel Stories. Examples: “The Woman with the 12 Year Issue of Blood” and “Jairus' Daughter” each feature “12 year” Motifs and the Symbolism becomes easier to see if the Stories reflect the Priesthood through 2 Mishmarot Cycles involving Passovers.
WHICH PASSOVERS? That's the Key. Our first step is to find an Anchor by which we can assign a Date Certain. In Ta'anit 29A , the date of the Destruction of the Temple is given as under the Course of Jehoiarib. See: http://www.schechter.edu/AskTheRabbi.aspx?ID=315 . NOTICE that, here as well, the “History” is possibly as given, but also possibly given to be in alignment with Jehoiarib – again.
When we get to Josephus, we will see that what was written was written in a manner possibly at odds with what is written elsewhere in Josephus. It will be seen that there is the possibility that this FORM of text in Josephus was given – whether written by Josephus or inserted later – to tell another Story that has been hidden. Herod may have died in 4 BCE, 3 BCE, 1 BCE or mebbe he's taking a vacation in Palm Springs to get in another round of golf before the rates go up. I dunno. The text of Antiquities..., Book 17, Chapter 9 and Wars..., Book 2, Chapter 1, however, tell of events in a very compressed manner, a manner that makes sense if the writer was intending a Story to be written about a Mishmarot Group that was on Duty for the Passover of 4 BCE.
I came into this by looking at the Gospels, especially Mark, without the Metaphysics of a Christian Overlay. If we strip out the Ball Peen Hammer of the constant pounding of the Christian Doctrine, is anything left? The answer, to me, is that there is an astonishing amount of Jewish History in the NT – Jannaeus, Salome, Antigonus, Hyrcanus 1 and 2 - in fact, the History of the Hasmonaeans, of Jehoiarib (and maybe even Immer...) of the HOUSE OF ELEAZAR. It's in Josephus, even if sometimes given in an elliptical manner. It's all there and, as I say too often, sometimes it is as if it is screaming at me:
“It's there, it really is there!...”
The Mishmarot Group “Immer”, given by the Hebrew word identical with “Immer” => “Lamb”, provides a word play for “Lamb of God” Immer is on Duty for the Passover of 4 BCE. Immer is on Duty for the Passover 12 years later. If there is no reason to consider a Mishmarot Group for ANY Passover in the NT, then none of this matters. If Josephus wrote the material mentioned above for a reason involving Mishmaorot, then the NT opens up as a “Hidden History” of the House of Eleazar, of Jehoiarib and of Immer:
Revelation 5: 12 – 13, in part (RSV):
[12] saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!"
[13] And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, "To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb...
This what was stolen by the Romans. It makes sense if it refers to Immer and the House of Eleazar, of Johoiarib and the Hasmonaeans, who would provide Kings and Priests. This makes sense if the event is Passover week of 4 BCE.
Passover of 4 BCE begins on Julian Day 1720066 and Immer begins on the following Sabbath (“Destroy this Temple and in 3 days...” Is this now explained?) Jesus asks where he may stay so that he may enjoy his Passover meal. He hasn't rotated in for his Service yet! His Group is next.
“Happizzez” is on Duty for the Passover of 3 BCE. If the Passover Slaughter occurred then, the alignment of Mishmarot makes no sense. So it appears for other Passovers. It certainly makes sense if it is assumed that the Slaughter happened in 4 BCE – or if it was WRITTEN that way.
CW
Re: Nicho-Dem-'s
I am getting a headache.
The bottom line is Josephus reports a lunar eclipse during the night off the execution of those who tore down the Golden Eagle. The event occurred shortly before the Passover in the year of Herod's death. That lunar eclipse has been determined to have occurred in 4 BC.
That is good enough for me and virtually every scholar out there but apparently not for you.
Oh well....
The bottom line is Josephus reports a lunar eclipse during the night off the execution of those who tore down the Golden Eagle. The event occurred shortly before the Passover in the year of Herod's death. That lunar eclipse has been determined to have occurred in 4 BC.
That is good enough for me and virtually every scholar out there but apparently not for you.
Oh well....