JW:
By now The Superior Skeptic may have noticed that in arguments involving significant early Christian Assertians the name Irenaeus of Lyons (yes, "Lyons") often starts the list of earliest supposed support for the orthodox Christian side:
Irenaeus
Personally, I think Irenaeus was a low-down, cheating, no-good, triple dealing, Monsouri scum. But for those of you who require more than just my say so (like evidence) to convict Irenaeus, the purpose of this Thread will be to inventory the important early Christian Assertians made by Irenaeus that are likely wrong.Irenaeus (/ɪrɪˈneɪəs/;[1] Greek: Εἰρηναῖος Eirēnaios; c. 130 – c. 202 AD)[2] was a Greek bishop noted for his role in guiding and expanding Christian communities in what is now the south of France and, more widely, for the development of Christian theology by combating heresy and defining orthodoxy. Originating from Smyrna, now Izmir in Turkey, he had seen and heard the preaching of Polycarp,[3] the last known living connection with the Apostles, who in turn was said to have heard John the Evangelist.[4]
Probably the most important assertian made in Irenaeus' writings is that the likely original Gospel narrative GMark was written by a follower of the character Simon in the Gospel:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iv.xi.html
Note that it is a Mark who is the supposed author of Canonical "Mark". The wording here, "the interpreter and follower of Peter", suggests that the source is Papias who likely was not referring to the Gospel "Mark". No author before Irenaeus of Lyons (yes "Lyons"), including Justin, identifies the author. Note the gradual transition of Revelation to Historical claim through Justin. Justin progresses to the general assertian of Gospels having Apostles as sources but does not make specific identifications except once to Peter (which must than be suspect).5. Wherefore also Mark, the interpreter and follower of Peter, does thus commence his Gospel narrative: "The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; as it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send My messenger before Thy face, which shall prepare Thy way. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make the paths 426 straight before our God."
There is not a single good reason to think that Papias, Irenaeus' likely source, was referring to GMark, but here are the reasons again why it is unlikely:
Papias[Via Eusebius]
The Elder used to say: Mark, in his capacity as Peter’s interpreter, wrote down accurately as many things as he recalled from memory—though not in an ordered form—of the things either said or done by the Lord. For he neither heard the Lord nor accompanied him, but later, as I said, Peter, who used to give his teachings in the form of chreiai,[Notes 1] but had no intention of providing an ordered arrangement of the logia of the Lord. Consequently Mark did nothing wrong when he wrote down some individual items just as he related them from memory. For he made it his one concern not to omit anything he had heard or to falsify anything.
- 1) "Mark, who had indeed been Peter's interpreter, accurately wrote as much as he remembered". "Mark" looks like an original Greek composition not based on any Aramaic source.
2) "accurately wrote as much as he remembered". "Mark" looks like a Complete composition.
3) "yet not in order". "Mark" is a Narrative and therefore, by Definition, is in Order.
4) "Peter, who would make the teachings anecdotally but not exactly an arrangement of the Lord's reports". Only "Teachings/Sayings" are mentioned here. "Mark" has a Primary theme of Minimizing the Sayings and Maximizing the Passion. Ben points out that "acts" are within the range of meaning of the underlying Greek but the primary meaning is teachings/sayings which is supported by the context.
5) "so that Mark did not fail by writing certain things as he recalled". This indicates some Incompleteness but "Mark" is a Complete Narrative.
6) "For he had one purpose, not to omit what he heard or falsify them." This indicates Mark avoided any effort to Connect Sayings yet "Mark" is Connective Narrative.
7) The above gives Credit to Peter's Witness but a Primary theme of "Mark" is to Discredit Peter as a witness to Jesus.
8) Much subsequent Christianity has a few parallels between "Mark" and Papias, who was a prolific writer and claims to be a collector of Jesus tales but none by early Christian writers including Eusebius.
9) Biased Christian Bible scholarship has serious doubts as to whether Papias was referring to "Mark".
Eveyone is welcome to comment except for Harvey Dubish.
Joseph
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