The connection of John with wilderness preceded the Gospels

[davidmartin]

wow i'm kind of awed
this mythicist stuff is just a joke, it's the 'new orthadoxy' and as such deserves to be opposed
what these fools don't even realise is they are doing the same thing the gnostics did - the same ones they reject as 'too late', LOL
what the heck's the difference between 'outer space' and the mythological 'pleroma'. it's the same thing
So in other words if the gnostics are wrong, so are you!

[Ben C. Smith]

Another perspective.

Greg Doudna

IS JOSEPHUS’S JOHN THE BAPTIST PASSAGE A
CHRONOLOGICALLY DISLOCATED
STORY OF THE DEATH OF HYRCANUS II?

....

Very interesting article! Thanks for the link.

[maryhelena]

Another perspective.

Greg Doudna

IS JOSEPHUS’S JOHN THE BAPTIST PASSAGE A
CHRONOLOGICALLY DISLOCATED
STORY OF THE DEATH OF HYRCANUS II?

....

Very interesting article! Thanks for the link.

Your welcome.....

[Giuseppe]

Bart Ehrman noted that Jesus is hungry in Mark.

The next morning as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry

(11:12)

I wonder if this Jesus being hungry is a reaction against a previous fictional story about John who, as "YHWH has pity/gives grace", was the exact contrary of a hungry person.

In other terms: there was a John of paper before a Jesus of paper.

[Stuart]

All interesting. But that is not at all my take on the John the baptizer/John the evangelist/John the Apostle myth. Of course you are free to interpret my observation, for what it's worth, however you choose. But my take is different.

Matthew suggests a Gnostic sect associated with John, as does the earlier elements in the Gospel of John and in 1 John. This also fits with the notion of Apollos/Apelles associating with John as patron saint, and aligning with Peter (proto-orthodox).

All the Synoptics associate John with the Jewish God, the Johannine gospel counters that he is with the God of Jesus not the Jews. This may reflect a political divisions between the sects more than any true alignment of their theology, especially those in opposition to the Johannine sect.

[Giuseppe]

Matthew suggests a Gnostic sect associated with John, as does the earlier elements in the Gospel of John and in 1 John.

true, but the great obstacle to consider John a "Gnostic thing" from the day 1° is the meaning of his name: "It is YHWH who gives grace". Could anti-demiurgists adore the grace coming from YHWH?

Also Jesus has YHWH in his name, but in his case the Gnostics were co-opting his entire originally Jewish legacy, casting him in an anti-YHWH god.

Hence my point is that John had to be born as a Judaizing icon from the first day.

The connection of John with the wilderness seens to be a way to justify someway his existence in the total absence of evidence.

Even today many have doubted about the existence of Bin Laden because he was described by media as living in the wilderness.