Jesus a pre-existent god before Pilate in Mark 12:5 makes Pilate a Demiurge

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Post Reply
Giuseppe
Posts: 13732
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Jesus a pre-existent god before Pilate in Mark 12:5 makes Pilate a Demiurge

Post by Giuseppe »

It is not only the Suffering Servant of Isaiah who doesn't speak.

“Are you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate.

“You have said so,” Jesus replied.

The chief priests accused him of many things. So again Pilate asked him, “Aren’t you going to answer? See how many things they are accusing you of.”

But Jesus still made no reply, and Pilate was amazed.

(Mark 15:2-5)

But also the Spirit of God:

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

(Genesis 1:2)

Absolute silence, in both the cases.


But then the Pilate who "was amazed" before Jesus's silence is the same god creator who had broken the original silence, by saying/asking "fiat lux!":

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

(Genesis 1:3)

Pilate kills Jesus == YHWH breaks the silence.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
Posts: 13732
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: Jesus a pre-existent god before Pilate in Mark 12:5 makes Pilate a Demiurge

Post by Giuseppe »

DWMH aramaic for "silence", is found also in 'DM "man". Hence the connection Son of Man/silence.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
Posts: 13732
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: Jesus a pre-existent god before Pilate in Mark 12:5 makes Pilate a Demiurge

Post by Giuseppe »

There is also a curious resemblance between Pilate and YHWH: both are asking, indeed begging, like beggars, for the "light" of an explanation.


dixitque Deus fiat lux et lux facta est But Jesus still made no reply, and Pilate was amazed.


The same idea is expressed by this picture, not coincidentially, found in the Italian page of wiki entry for "Christ Myth Theory":

Image

Note the deliberate contrast between Light and Darkness: who is the real beggar, Pilate or Jesus ?

YHWH, or the Light?

ADDENDA: really, the author of the picture probably conceived the LIght around Pilate as the Light of the History. :whistling:
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
Posts: 13732
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: Jesus a pre-existent god before Pilate in Mark 12:5 makes Pilate a Demiurge

Post by Giuseppe »

Irenaeus reports the ignorance of the Demiurge, and the need, for him, of a Light by an alien deity:

3. They go on to say that the Demiurge imagined that he created all these things of himself, while he in reality made them in conjunction with the productive power of Achamoth. He formed the heavens, yet was ignorant of the heavens; he fashioned man, yet knew not man; he brought to light the earth, yet had no acquaintance with the earth; and, in like manner. they declare that he was ignorant of the forms of all that he made, and knew not even of the existence of his own mother, but imagined that he himself was all things. They further affirm that his mother originated this opinion in his mind, because she desired to bring him forth possessed of such a character that he should be the head and source of his own essence, and the absolute ruler over every kind of operation [that was afterwards attempted]. This mother they also call Ogdoad, Sophia; Terra, Jerusalem, Holy Spirit, and, with a masculine reference, Lord.(1) Her place of habitation is an intermediate one, above the Demiurge indeed, but below and outside of the Pleroma, even to the end.(2)

http://gnosis.org/library/advh1.htm

Jesus Christ, our Saviour, is not the Serpent, but he came to combat the Serpent.

(Epiphanius, Panarion 37.8)

There are no doubts: Pilate is allegory of the demiurge.

This makes the third enigma resolved in proto-Mark, :cheers: after Barabbas and after Zebedee.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
Posts: 13732
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: Jesus a pre-existent god before Pilate in Mark 12:5 makes Pilate a Demiurge

Post by Giuseppe »

The Sound of Silence in Gnostic cosmology:

It is commonly noticed that the Valentinian protological system parallels some Classic Gnostic texts, such as the Apocryphon of John (BG 24,20-25,1), Zostrianos (64,14-16) and Allogenes (49,26-38; 65,32-36). The “Depth” (Βυθός) also occurs in Eugnostos (V 6,20) and Irenaeus’s description of Ophite mythology in Iren. Haer. 1.30.1. The “Silence” (Σιγή) is found in the Eugnostos (V 15,21; III 88, 8-9) as well as in the related Sophia of Jesus Christ (III 112,8; 117,17.21) and the Apocryphon of John (III 10,15).256 In
these texts, the first principle is depicted in an apophatic manner existing beyond being, or having undetermined essence.257 Although it became common among the Middle Platonic philosophers to use apophatic language in describing the radical transcendence of the first principle, the Apocryphon of John and some other Gnostic texts also used kataphatic language to stress the gulf between the divine world and material creation. The Demiurge called Yaldabaoth was no longer the representative of the good and ordered cosmos, whose providence guided the rational souls of the planetary gods, but an amorphous and chaotic figure who created in order to deceive and whose fiery rulers of heaven intended to enslave humanity.

(University of Helsinki 2016, Risto Auvinen, Philo and the Valentinians, Protology, Cosmogony, and Anthropology, p. 91, my bold)
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Post Reply