Re: A NEW APPROACH TO AN OLD PROBLEM
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:28 am
Bernard Muller wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:11 am to maryhelena,
From Visi's The Chronology of John the Baptist and the Crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth: A New Approach (all bolding are mine)I think you are on thin ice about this 19 CE.The idea that John must have died after Jesus’ execution has been advocated by Robert Eisler (1882–1949), an ingenious but eccentric scholar, whose theories cannot but seem idiosyncratic today. Relying heavily on the Slavonic version of Josephus’ Jewish War Eisler claimed that Pilate’s office in Judea began as early as 19 CE, that Jesus was acclaimed the king of the Jews in 21 CE and was crucified the same year after his army lost a battle against the Roman troops of Pontius Pilate.
Eisler’s theories were heavily criticized and generally rejected by his contemporaries: nevertheless, we shall attempt to show that his intuitions were basically correct concerning the relative chronology of Jesus’ crucifixion and John’s beheading.
Later, Visi provided his sequence of events according to Josephus.
Here is what Josephus wrote, according to the translation that Visi used:sequence of events
1. John gathered many followers around himself teaching them good morals.
2. Herod Antipas feared that the mob that gathered around John would eventually initiate a rebellion. (Josephus does not indicate that Herod had anything personal against John, nor that John criticized his unorthodox marriage.)
3. So John was arrested and executed in the fortress of Machaerus.
4. Soon after a war broke out between Herod and the Nabatean king, Aretas. Herod’s army was defeated and almost completely annihilated.
5. Many Jews of Herod’s realm believed that the military disaster was a divine punishment for the execution of John the Baptist.So Aretas started his quarrel with Antipas right before Herodias and Antipas married; then Visi assumed: soon after, Aretas & Antipas were at war and again soon after, the battle took place. And around the time of the battle, John the Baptist was arrested, sent as a prisoner to Macherus and executed soon after.So she speedily reached her father and told him what Herod planned to do. Aretas made this the start of a quarrel. There was also a dispute about boundaries in the district of Gabalis. Troops were mustered on each side and they were now at war,
Visi figured all these events, from Aretas' daughter flight to the battle & John's execution happened within one year around 35/36 C.
But first, "they were now at war" is misleading and even incorrect. The Greek is more properly translated as:
εις πολεμον καθισταντο
there was a state of war which does not mean the armies were fighting each other yet.
And then, we have:
From Josephus' Antiquities XVIII:
A) The future Agrippa I meets Antipas & Herodias some time (years?) after they got married (6, 2). Then,
B) Agrippa sojourns in Tiberias for some undetermined time (years?) (6, 2). Then,
C) Agrippa goes to Antioch and stays with his friend Flaccus, president over Syria, (died either 33 or 35 CE) for some unspecified duration (years?) (6, 3). Then,
D) When Flaccus is still alive, Agrippa goes to Ptolemais and then Alexandria in order to raise money for himself (6, 3).
E) Agrippa arrives in Italy (at the latest in 36 CE) when Tiberius is still alive and then sojourn here (years?).
Of course, times of Agrippa' stays in Tiberias & Antioch & finally in Italy (very eventful for Agrippa) are not known (as also when after the wedding he met Antipas with Herodias), but I doubt Josephus would have mentioned these sojourns if they were short.
Anyway. that shows Antipas & Herodias were married at least two years before 36 CE, but probably more.
Cordially, Bernard