Where is John the Baptist attacked as "the Archon of the Multitude" ?

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Giuseppe
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Where is John the Baptist attacked as "the Archon of the Multitude" ?

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:15 am

I know that John the Baptist is attacked as "the Archon of the Multitude" in a Gnostic Egyptian book of which I don't know the title and the reference, apart this:

(1) The Secret Books of the Egyptian Gnostics, Doresse, 1960: 220 (2) .


Can you find the exact quote? Thank you in advance.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Giuseppe
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Re: Where is John the Baptist attacked as "the Archon of the Multitude" ?

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:26 am

I read from here: https://www.academia.edu/37529625/The_S ... ndaean_pdf

It is interesting to note that Marcionites (a heretical sect founded in C.E. 144 at Rome by Marcion) had launched a surprising attack upon John and the baptism in the Jordan and called him: “Archon of the multitude”:

“The river of Jordan, this, to him, is the strength of the body - that is, the essence of pleasure; and the water of Jordan is the desire for carnal co-habitation.”

As for John, he is “the archon of the multitude” 248

Note 248 reads:

Doresse, i960: 220. In this concern Jonas writes: “This is entirely unique. Could it be a retort to the Mandaeans - the other side of the bitter quarrel of which we have the Mandean side in their writings? The account is too sketchy to permit more than the suggestion of this tempting possibility” (Jonas, H., JR, 1962: 265).

(my bold)
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: Where is John the Baptist attacked as "the Archon of the Multitude" ?

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:32 am

The implication of the identity Jordan==(evil) flesh is that John the Baptist is the one who chains people to evil matter by his baptism in Jordan.

The second implication is that Jesus was the only person who emerged really from the "Jordan": who broke the chains of the evil demiurge, of which the earthly agent was John the Baptist.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Giuseppe
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Re: Where is John the Baptist attacked as "the Archon of the Multitude" ?

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:42 am

Note that, independently from all this, I was already arrived to realize the negative character of John the Baptist, respectively here and here:

Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:17 am
I have found another evidence that John the Baptist was an agent of the demiurge, so proving the Cathars were correct:

The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.

(Genesis 3:21)

The giving of garments by YHWH to Adam and Eve was interpreted by the Gnostics as the act by which the demiurge buries/imprisons the humanity in the evil matter. Hence, a John the Baptist with "garments of skin" is by definition a creature of the evil demiurge. Despite of his being Elijah redivivus.

So, if Marcion called John the Baptist as "the greatest born by woman", the expression is an insult: who is born by woman is mere evil flesh, creature of the demiurge. It means, more or less: John is a concentrate of evil flesh.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Giuseppe
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Re: Where is John the Baptist attacked as "the Archon of the Multitude" ?

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:20 pm

It is the text No. 19 of Nagh Hammadi, probably. So Doresse:

This is an epistle whose title is missing. It vigorously attacks the Pharisees and Scribes of the Law.
"To those who can hear, not with the ears of the body but with those of the heart, I will say: Many have sought the truth but have not been able to find it"

. (We have met with similar preliminary formulas before at the beginning of the letter of Eugnostos and of our text No. 40).
"Because of that, the old leaven of the Pharisees and of the Scribes of the Law had power over them". Further on, we are told that the Scribes belong to the Archon, to the evil Prince of this world", for no one who finds himself subject to the Law will be able to raise his eyes toward the Truth. It is impossible to serve two masters, for the defilement of the Law is manifest, whilst purity pertains to the light. The Law indeed commands one to take a spouse, to take a wife, to increase and multiply like the waves of the sea. But passion, which is agreable to souls, binds here below the souls of those who are begotten.... For them it is impossible to pass by the Archon of Darkness until they have paid back the last farthing".

Then the Baptism of John is recalled, raising the question of
"the power who came to us upon the river of Jordan - a sign who showed that the reign of the carnal generation was ended".

Was the baptism dispensed by John regarded favourably by our exegetist?
"The river of Jordan, this, to him, is the strenght of the body - that is, the essence of pleasures; and the water of Jordan is the desire for carnal co-habitation"

. As for John, he is
"the archon of the multitude... What is revealed to us by the Son of Man himself, is that we must receive the Word of Truth..."


(my bold)
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: Where is John the Baptist attacked as "the Archon of the Multitude" ?

Post by andrewcriddle » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:22 am

This passage is usually translated as archon of the womb
See http://gnosis.org/naghamm/testruth.html
But the Son of Man came forth from Imperishability, being alien to defilement. He came to the world by the Jordan river, and immediately the Jordan turned back. And John bore witness to the descent of Jesus. For it is he who saw the power which came down upon the Jordan river; for he knew that the dominion of carnal procreation had come to an end. The Jordan river is the power of the body, that is, the senses of pleasures. The water of the Jordan is the desire for sexual intercourse. John is the archon of the womb.

And this is what the Son of Man reveals to us: It is fitting for you (pl.) to receive the word of truth, if one will receive it perfectly. But as for one who is in ignorance, it is difficult for him to diminish his works of darkness which he has done. Those who have known Imperishability, however, have been able to struggle against passions [...]. I have said to you, "Do not build nor gather for yourselves in the place where the brigands break open, but bring forth fruit to the Father."
Andrew Criddle

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Re: Where is John the Baptist attacked as "the Archon of the Multitude" ?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:09 am

andrewcriddle wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:22 am
John is the archon of the womb.
Thank you.

No doubt that the "womb" shares with the "multitude" the idea that the evil demiurge had commanded in Genesis 9:7: As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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