Where there was the Demiurge, now there is Herod in Mark

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Giuseppe
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Where there was the Demiurge, now there is Herod in Mark

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:13 am

maryhelena wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:54 am

Implicating Herodias and Her Daughter
in the Death of John the Baptizer:
A (Christian) Theological Strategy?

ross s. kraemer

Interesting.

the author of the article writes:
Although it might initially seem that Antipas's assessment of John's identity in Mark 6:16 contradicts this thesis, in fact I think it supports it.

In my view (proto-Mark as a marcionite gospel), I don't think that Herod was mentioned at all in the original story. But his words of wonder about Jesus's exploits figured. Only, they were not the words of Herod.

But the words of the Demiurge.

The creator heard about this, for Jesus’ name had become well known. Some were saying, “John the Baptist has been raised from the dead, and that is why miraculous powers are at work in him.”

Others said, “He is Elijah.”

And still others claimed, “He is a prophet, like one of the prophets of long ago.”

But when the creator heard this, he said, “John, whom I killed, has been raised from the dead!”

The demiurge could have a reason to kill John the Baptist: he failed in his mission: to recognize in advance the Son of Man and stop him.

This scenario explains why Herod was introduced in the Gospel story by the anti-marcionites. Only a king of the status of Herod could work as an earthly 'demiurge'.

I don't see other reasons about why Herod had to be hated by the evangelists: it is evident that in the Real History Herod Antipas didn't persecute the Christians.

Note that the scholar Brad McAdon concedes already that the birth story of Matthew and Luke were anti-marcionite. The Herod/Pharaon who killed the babies is a very good example of how the evil demiurge could work against the Son of the Alien Father ("Bar-Abbas").
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Giuseppe
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Re: Where there was the Demiurge, now there is Herod in Mark

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:57 am

The idea is not new.

The exegetes of the New Testament betrayed a certain embarrassment when they were faced with the lie that attributed to Herod the massive extermination known as the “massacre of the innocents.” The imputation of a heinous crime that Marcionism would count as one of a number of wrathful manifestations of the God of Israel to a perfectly bloody Jewish king expresses quite well the will of the fabricators of the Gospels to give an anecdotal and historical character to symbols and abstractions.

(my bold)
http://www.notbored.org/resistance-5.html
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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