The Letter Stigma

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
Posts: 18922
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: Another Question for Ben

Post by Secret Alias »

Thanks
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
Posts: 18922
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: Another Question for Ben

Post by Secret Alias »

The original question was about the letter stigma. It is interesting that the letter would make not only Jesus a six letter word but also 'Christ' Χριϛός. While Irenaeus doesn't say that the Marcosians held that Jesus Christ was a twelve letter name, he almost does:
Ihsous, consists of six letters, but His unutterable name comprises for-and-twenty letters. The name Christ the Son (uios Xreistos) comprises twelve letter
Still wondering if the stigma was some sort of Alexandrian notation.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
Posts: 18922
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: Another Question for Ben

Post by Secret Alias »

Apparently the Alexandrians had a special name for the episemon - gabex:

"‘Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, about the sixth hour: and he said to the Jews: Behold your king’. The Evangelist referred to the hour because the resurrection happened on the third day. The penman/copyist (καλλιγραφικός)19 instead of the Gamma element that marks the third, wrote episemon, which the Alexandrians call gabex, which signifies sixth, having much similarity [in form?]. And because of the writing error there came the discrepancy. For instead of third hour he wrote sixth” (Ammonii Alexandrini, Fragmenta in S. Joannem 19:14).
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
Posts: 18922
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Letter Stigma

Post by Secret Alias »

If we look carefully at Irenaeus's statements there does seem to be a sense that Episemon - like Stigma - is a 'double letter.' Stigma = Sigma + Tau.
And for this reason did Moses declare that man was formed on the sixth day; and then, again, according to arrangement, it was on the sixth day, which is the preparation, that the last man appeared, for the regeneration of the first, Of this arrangement, both the beginning and the end were formed at that sixth hour, at which He was nailed to the tree. For that perfect being Nous, knowing that the number six had the power both of formation and regeneration, declared to the children of light, that regeneration which has been wrought out by Him who appeared as the Episemon in regard to that number. Whence also he declares it is that the double letters contain the Episemon number; for this Episemon, when joined to the twenty-four elements, completed the name of thirty letters.

He employed as his instrument, as the Sige of Marcus declares, the power of seven letters, in order that the fruit of the independent will [of Achamoth] might be revealed. "Consider this present Episemon," she says--"Him who was formed after the Episemon, as being, as it were, divided or cut into two parts, and remaining outside

who, by His own power and wisdom, through means of that which had been produced by Himself, gave life to this world, consisting of seven powers,(7) after the likeness of the power of the Hebdomad, and so formed it, that it is the soul of everything visible. And He indeed uses this work Himself as if it had been formed by His own free will; but the rest, as being images of what cannot be [fully] imitated, are subservient to the Enthymesis of the mother. And the first heaven indeed pronounces Alpha, the next to this Epsilon, the third Eta, the fourth, which is also in the midst of the seven, utters the sound of Iota, the fifth Omicron, the sixth Upsilon, the seventh, which is also the fourth from the middle, utters the elegant Omega,"--as the Sige of Marcus, talking a deal of nonsense, but uttering no word of truth, confidently asserts. "And these powers," she adds, "being all simultaneously clasped in each other's embrace, do sound out the glory of Him by whom they were produced; and the glory of that sound is transmitted upwards to the Propator." She asserts, moreover, that "the sound of this uttering of praise, having been wafted to the earth, has become the Framer and the Parent of those things which are on the earth."
Episemon does not appear to be Vau - a vowel.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
User avatar
Ben C. Smith
Posts: 8994
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:18 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: The Letter Stigma

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Secret Alias wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:45 pm If we look carefully at Irenaeus's statements there does seem to be a sense that Episemon - like Stigma - is a 'double letter.' Stigma = Sigma + Tau.

....

Episemon does not appear to be Vau - a vowel.
Well, the usual name, digamma, kind of has the idea of "doubling" baked right into the word itself.
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ
User avatar
Joseph D. L.
Posts: 1426
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am

Re: The Letter Stigma

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Could digamma have been a shorthand for Ἰάω/יה?
User avatar
Joseph D. L.
Posts: 1426
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am

Re: Another Question for Ben

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Secret Alias wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:29 am The original question was about the letter stigma. It is interesting that the letter would make not only Jesus a six letter word but also 'Christ' Χριϛός. While Irenaeus doesn't say that the Marcosians held that Jesus Christ was a twelve letter name, he almost does:
Ihsous, consists of six letters, but His unutterable name comprises for-and-twenty letters. The name Christ the Son (uios Xreistos) comprises twelve letter
Still wondering if the stigma was some sort of Alexandrian notation.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Pr ... frontcover

So is Irenaeus saying the Marcosians believed the unutterable name consisted of all 24 Greek letters? Could that be a Pythagorean inspired formular?
davidmartin
Posts: 1620
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:51 pm

Re: The Letter Stigma

Post by davidmartin »

Secret Alias wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:02 pm Clement Exhortation 2.13.2
Πάρεστι δὲ καὶ ἄλλως μυθήριά σοι νοεῖν ἀντιστοιχούντων τῶν γραμμάτων τὰ μυστήρια

You may understand mysteria in another way, as mytheria, the letters of the two words being interchanged
Does this represent the earliest reference to the letter stigma?

i.e. μυθήριά and μυϛηρια?

How else can the transposition of two letters work? It can't be standard spelling of mysteria μυστήρια. ἀντιστοιχούντων implies a one for one pairing or interchange.
how does mysteria appear in Coptic? would this help?
Clement being Egyptian might be worth checking how the greek word appears there. i know it is found in Coptic Christian writings
Secret Alias
Posts: 18922
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Letter Stigma

Post by Secret Alias »

No. Coptic is too recent.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
Posts: 18922
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Letter Stigma

Post by Secret Alias »

Could digamma have been a shorthand for Ἰάω/יה?
That was my first 'gut' when I saw all the vowels lined up. But after a split second I remembered that the vowels go
Alpha, Epsilon, Eta, Iota, Omicron, Upsilon, Omega
Now there is the line:
the fourth, which is also in the midst of the seven, utters the sound of Iota
so you have a menorah motif:

---------------
ωυο----ηεα

Image

so maybe if you take the yod as being slightly above or accented you get Ἰαεηουω or Ἰάω. Yes that seems to be possible.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Post Reply